Question.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Agreed.

---Agreed

Agreed.

---Agreed

Agreed.

---Agreed

Agreed.

---Agreed

Agreed.

---Agreed

Agreed.

---Agreed

Agreed.

---Agreed

Agreed.

---Agreed

Agreed.

---Agreed

Under 113, "in terms of Investigation," what are the rights of the public -- or the electorate, in this case -- who voted for a trustee, then the Minister now dissolves the education body but the public are the ones who elected the body. I'm just curious what the rights are of the electorate.

I'm just trying to think here because there are two aspects that we have to consider; one to deal with the matter of investigation where previously the Minister did not have the ability to carry out investigations, which was necessary or which was shown to be necessary in certain circumstances so that we may determine whether or not there is a need to dissolve a divisional education council. Having said that, obviously the investigation would identity the issues, the problems and who might be responsible or what would be the basis for the concerns being raised, and the remedy as well. It gives us the option first, to move to dissolution.

There's a bit of a problem, though, because you have to understand that the divisional board, itself, is really a representative group of the division and you can't really say they are elected on a regional basis; they are selected by the districts. So, while they are representing the communities, they are not elected on a regional basis. The other thing is, the investigation would also include input from the community, which was not there previously.

I have no problem with that. I would just clarify that I'm referring to section 113.(2), "suspend the powers of an education body or dissolve an education body. An education body could be a DEA, which is made up of elected people. That's why I'm asking about the rights of the people who elected the trustees to the DEA. If the Minister says you are no longer an official education body and I'm going to appoint a trustee to take over, there must be some obligation to the electorate in the community who elected those people. I'm just trying to get some clarification.

Thank you. I understand the question now. What this allows the Minister to do is to ensure that the education body is carrying out its public responsibility and, in some instances, they may not be doing that. The communities may determine that the people are doing the right thing, but the investigation may reveal that that is not, in fact, the case. The information has to be made available to the community so they can make that determination, where it is in the interest of the community to receive that information. There are situations where other factors could come into play -- where there is legal action, etcetera -- and we would have to be concerned about that.

The other thing is, even if the Minister were to dissolve the education body, it would really be up to the electors to make their own decision after a Minister takes action with regard to those seeking re-election. It is really no different, I think, from the municipal election process and the investigation and dissolving powers in that legislation. That's the basis on which we're dealing with this. Unfortunately, our experiences as an Assembly have shown that there are circumstances where we have to use this type of power. It's the matter of the protection of the public interest. We're also ensuring that public funds are spent properly.

I wish to ensure somewhere, though, that there is a responsibility for all parties to consult with each other. There is obviously going to be consultation within the community, consultation with the trustees, and it's not going to be a situation where one walks in and shuts everything down. I know there are a lot of things leading up to an investigation and things following an investigation. But I just want to make sure that there will be provisions for proper consultation and the district is well aware of any incidents or investigations are taking place.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I certainly concur with the honourable Member. I think if we read the clause in total, it indicates that now a Minister has the ability to investigate, which we didn't have previously. The investigations, which include consultations with trustees, the community and those involved, will determine whether the education body is exercising it's powers as defined in this act. Part of that includes the responsibility for managing resources, people, structure and programs. We would make sure that is clearly the case and I think the legislation is clear that there are some investigations that need to be done prior to those decisions being made. Part of the regulations may clarify what the roles and processes are, as well.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With regard to clause 113, which reads '"Where the Minister is of the opinion that an education body is not adequately exercising its powers" this clause, all five sections of it, describes how the Minister can get involved with the education body if it's not performing its duties. I would like to ask the Minister, through you, Mr. Chairman, if he could explain to me what this clause is replacing in the current act. Is it giving more authority and strength to the Minister to do investigations and give direction to an education body, if it is seen that it is not operating well? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The authority to dissolve is in existence right now; I have the ability to do that. What we are now including is the investigative authority, so we can deal with the matter of communication and remedy some of the problems that exist. The fact is, our investigations may prove that circumstances are such that the body of authority may not be responsible for some of the things that are going on. On the other hand, they may be totally responsible, so we have to make judgements based on that information and on the discussions we have with those we're consulting. It gives us the investigative component, which we didn't have before. In other words, we didn't have an ability to talk to the community, ask questions, and get into the investigations into the depth that is necessary. What we're trying to do here is add an investigative authority that wasn't there before. I can advise the honourable Member that there have been no dissolutions in 18 years, after assessments. There are situations we have just encountered as an Assembly, where certain boards ... I don't want to talk about them, but I think investigations of the boards would have been better. I think things would have worked out sooner and better had we had that responsibility. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, in clause 113, regarding the wording "Were the Minister of the opinion," how does the Minister form his or her opinion? Is it in consultation with the staff and his department? Is it in consultation with communities? How is this opinion to be formed? Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, I asked a question to the Minister.

The issue of opinions is always subjective. It depends on the facts, whether or not it is community concerns that are raised, public concerns, a district raising concerns about the conduct of the divisional board, et cetera. It could be some of the financial information we are getting indicating that there are problems in terms of fiscal responsibility. It could be that we are getting reports in which the student progress is such that we are unhappy with the results. Those are all considerations. We need to get all the information before a Minister can make any kind of decision. It has to be clear that whatever occurs, the Minister is acting fairly and with due consideration of all the facts and issues. If not, the Minister could find himself in court as quick as anything. It is one thing for people to put forward the facts and issues as they are; it is another thing to accuse innocent people of certain conduct without the information before you. We have to be very careful on the utilization of this authority. Those are considerations: the facts and the issues.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Agreed.

---Agreed

Agreed.

---Agreed

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want clarification of an education body. Is that a CEC; community education council? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The education bodies, as defined in the definitions, are district education authorities, divisional education councils and the commission. Those are the three defined under that definition. It is at the beginning of the act.