Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. General comments or statements? Mr. Dent.

A judgement question. Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Dent.

Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. General comments, general statements or general questions about Committee Report 2-12(7)? Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A concern that I have that I would like noted for the record is that I, too, was disappointed with the committee's report, mainly because of the fact that it was my understanding that the public have asked many times for an ombudsman. I know that, particularly in my constituency, they find that there should be a need to identify or to address an ombudsman's office here in the Northwest Territories. I recognize that we're just a small jurisdiction, but we have a fairly large bureaucracy and it's sometimes difficult for people to be able to bring issues forward and they may not want to use the political route to address these issues.

I want to state that it's my understanding that during the public hearings the committee continually heard that members of the public would like the creation of an ombudsman-like office. It was unfortunate that the committee indicated that the government should not create this office until they can determine how effective the recently passed Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act has been.

I guess, with that, it's going to determine the time frame and it may be in the next Legislative Assembly that they may consider looking at an ombudsman. Then it's going to be the issue of cost. I recognize that we're going to be looking at probably in excess of $225,000 to continue to operate. However, knowing the next Assembly is going to be in very tight financial restraints, it's going to be more difficult then to justify the creation of such a needed office.

I think it's important and incumbent upon the Assembly to try to find a method to be able to give the responsibility to investigate complaints about government administration or about government overall for individuals who may not want to use the political route. I think, with all due respect to the government, they should consider looking at setting something up in order to address this to look at areas of impartiality which will probably avoid such things as the need for different types of reviews that are continually going on. It can possibly be rerouted and avoided.

It's a comment that I want to state, that this committee recommended this prior to myself becoming a Member on this committee. I don't agree with the committee report and I just felt that it should be noted for the public.

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. General comments, statements or general questions? Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Looking at the future fiscal climate in the Northwest Territories and the pressures we know are going to be visited on the next government, I listen with interest to the debate about whether the ombudsman should be created now or later or whether the ombudsman should be amalgamated with the office of the Access and Privacy Commissioner, which I thought would have been the best use of resources and perhaps a chance to save some money through sharing of an office and perhaps an individual.

But, Mr. Chairman, I wonder if the next government is to meet the deficit reduction targets that are required by the bill recently passed by this Assembly, if it is to meet the requirements for restraint which we know and fear will be imposed by the financial restraint threatened by the Government of Canada. I wonder whether this isn't an academic debate. I wonder whether, when teachers, nurses and programs which are very vital to our communities are going to be cut because of severe fiscal problems, we'll be able to afford to consider such questions as how the office of the ombudsman will work. I wonder if we'll consider it impossible in light of the fiscal burdens on the horizon.

I just want to make that point, I guess, Mr. Chairman. It's a good debate and an interesting debate, but I wonder if fiscal reality is not going to mean that other, more urgent priorities will have to delay the implementation of this legislative action paper. I think it's an interesting question for the future and I guess I just want to note that I believe the biggest question will be the cost, and whether that cost can be justified in a time of severe financial restraint. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Are there any further contributions to the discussion on this legislative action paper? Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Members of the Standing Committee on Legislation have dealt with this matter in the committee. We've talked about it and had the Minister appear before us. I think the reason we go through the process is that for any bill which goes to a committee, the committee makes recommendations or a report to committee of the whole. From there on, if we have enough interest in committee of the whole, then we debate the matter in the appropriate forum.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the Minister of Justice if he has available information for committee of the whole. How much would it cost, approximately, to set up such an office in the system? Thank you.

You can answer that one, Mr. Kakfwi.

Mr. Kakfwi, that was for a separate office for ombudsman; is that correct, as you recall?

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Any further comments, statements or general questions on this legislative action paper? Does the committee agree, then, that we have concluded discussion on this item?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. Could we go on, then, to Committee Report 5-12(7), Report on the Review of Rewriting the Liquor Laws of the Northwest Territories: A Legislative Action Paper. Mr. Whitford. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Chairman, I was just looking for a copy of that report and I can't seem to find it in the back. I would like to move that we report progress.

There is a motion to report progress. It's not debatable. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Question.