Before I get to the point of order, I would like to recognize in the public gallery from Fort Liard, which is Mr. Antoine's constituency, we have Joanne Deneron, Ellery Deneron, Derek and Kiley. Welcome. Thank you. Yesterday, in debate in the committee of the whole, the honourable Member for MacKenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko, raised a point of order. As it was near the end of the day, I indicated to the House that I would review unedited Hansard and report back to the House. I am now ready to deliver my ruling.

Chairman's Ruling on Point of Order

Some information is required to put the point of order in context. The committee was considering the budget of the Department of Public Works. On the specific line item of assets management, operations and maintenance, Mr. Henry and Mrs. Groenewegen declared conflicts of interest as they both have businesses which lease space to DPW. The lease of office space falls under the line item of assets management. Later in the day, both Mr. Henry and Mrs. Groenewegen were present in the House during the consideration of the program summary for the department. Mr. Krutko raised a point of order, stating, and I quote from page 1009 of unedited Hansard:

"Regarding the overall budget of this portfolio, I believe there were two Members who did declare conflict regarding the assets and liabilities and I believe that the overall budget that was approved, $83,672,000, does consist of that portion of this budget."

I offered Mrs. Groenewegen and Mr. Henry an opportunity to make representations on this issue. They both indicated that they had received advice from the law clerk to the effect that they were not in conflict of interest in considering the overall departmental budget and that they were only in conflict when considering the specific line item. Mrs. Groenewegen indicated that she had even sought an opinion from the Conflict of Interest Commissioner.

Rule 13 of the Rules of the Legislative Assembly does provide that "No Member is entitled to vote upon any question in which he or she has a direct or indirect financial interest, and the vote of any Member so interested shall be disallowed".

My role today is to assess whether Mr. Henry or Mrs. Groenewegen breached that rule in being present in the House and having agreed on the program summary of the department. The answer is simple. The rule prohibits voting if a Member has a financial interest. The actions yesterday on the program summary were to approve the summary. No formal vote occurred. However, for the guidance of Members, I will address the larger issue involved. Rule 13 does not provide me with a great deal of guidance as to what is a "direct or indirect financial interest". I can, however, take notice of the fact that this Legislature has adopted legislation which defines and addresses issues relating to conflict of interest. I refer, of course, to the specific provisions of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act. Those provisions define conflict and also provide that there is no conflict of interest if an interest is "so remote or insignificant in its nature that it cannot reasonably be regarded as likely to influence the Member in the performance of the duties of office of the Member". The House is not in possession of information which would allow me to evaluate whether Mr. Henry's or Mrs. Groenewegen's interests are "so remote" as to not be a conflict. Both Members have sought legal advice and I can assume that they are satisfied that they have no conflict at the program summary stage or the main estimates for the Department of Public Works. In the absence of any contrary information, I rule that the Member for Mackenzie Delta does not have a point of order.

Before I end my ruling, I would like to draw all Members' attention to the ruling of Speaker Gargan of February 4, 1997. Mr. Speaker clearly indicated that the Legislative Assembly has adopted a process and structure for identifying and addressing conflicts of interest. That process is through the office of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner and we should be extremely reluctant to bypass the process that we ourselves have established. Conflict is a serious issue and should not be politicized or trivialized. Thank you.

Yesterday, when we concluded for the day, we were reviewing the Department of Transportation 1997-98 main estimates, and Mr. Minister had made his opening remarks, so did the appropriate chairperson of the committee of this House. Therefore, we are now in general comments. Before we get into general comments, I would like to ask the honourable Minister of Transportation if he wishes to bring in the witnesses. Mr. Antoine.