Thank you. Before I recognize Mr. Henry again on behalf of Mr. Levi Barnabas I would like to recognize up in the public gallery, Mr. Berry and Freida Tibbitt from Arctic Bay.
-- Applause
Debates of Feb. 25th, 1997
Topics
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 868
The Chair John Ningark
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 868
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Henry.
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 868
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Does the Minister have available to him the approximate cost, and if we use Edmonton because it is closest, that a student would receive in the supplementary grant going to university in Edmonton? Approximately how much would the supplementary would cost each year?
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 868
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. The honourable Minister, Mr. Dent.
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 868
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The supplementary grant is a living allowance and is based on the number of dependents that a student would have. It varies considerably. I am not sure I can come up with a figure off the top of my head. I expect we could provide the Member, given some time, the average. It would be difficult to pick a number. I can give numbers on a monthly basis but not throughout the year. As I understand it, a single student living with employed parents, $290; single student, $675. That is the range we are talking about. Mr. Chairman, I am afraid I have to stop there because it appears that Mr. Devitt's book is missing a page.
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 868
The Chair John Ningark
I would not be surprised if Mr. Henry has that page.
-- Laughter
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 868
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Mr. Chairman, I have a lot of pages here so I can always spare one and I have more upstairs if he needs them. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If we can agree at a figure of maybe around $8,000, would that be reasonable for a supplementary grant? How does that compare then with non-aboriginal students who would be eligible to receive the re-payable grant? How would those two figures compare dollar-wise?
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 869
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 869
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Mr. Chairman, that depends entirely on whether or not the student receiving the supplementary grant has dependents. The best thing for me to do is to offer to try to get some average figures back to the Member. I cannot do that off the top of my head or with the information we have with us in the House.
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 869
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Henry.
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 869
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Mr. Chairman, I can appreciate maybe this is difficult information but some of the figures, if we can deal with a single person, I am just trying to get the analogies between both. I think it is fair to say from the initial information he gave me, if we just take a single person not worrying about dependents or that, it seems that grant is, I would even drop it down, $6,000 per year and a forgivable grant how much is that? If we would agree with it being $6,000 a year even for a single student and how much would the forgivable grant be for a single student?
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 869
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 869
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is $675 a month and there are eight months, $5,400 would be the number for a single student. Under the primary loan, the amount that is available for the same purposes I believe is $3,200.
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 869
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Your final question, Mr. Henry.
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 869
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So if we use the figures the Minister is suggesting, it would be $5,400 for a supplementary grant for an aboriginal student and a non-aboriginal student could get a grant, $3,200 of which could be forgiven. I see a large difference there. I, like Mr. Ootes, will also be pleased to offer some comments when this item comes up for review. I think there are certainly much more fair and equitable ways to handle this situation, even if the supplementary grant was provided on a needs basis rather than automatic. I will finish with this question, is there a needs assessment done or does every aboriginal student get a supplementary grant regardless of need? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 869
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Henry. Mr. Minister.
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 869
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are no needs assessments done for aboriginal students in the provision of their grants. In this review of the whole process maybe one of the things we should take a look at is handing back the administration to the federal government, for aboriginal students. If there is a real problem with a difference between the two, I think we have to recognize that difference is found across Canada and relates to fiduciary responsibility that the federal government has to aboriginal peoples. If we are administering a program on their behalf, I do not think it is reasonable that aboriginal people should find themselves treated differently by this jurisdiction because we are administering the program, over what would happen if the federal government were to administer it. All of these things will have to be examined in the student financial assistance review and I am sure that will be one of the positions that aboriginal groups will certainly want to take a look at. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 869
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Henry, final question.
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 869
Seamus Henry Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I would suggest that proposition by the Minister may be something worth looking at if the federal government has an obligation to aboriginal students. I think the minimum we can do as a government is collect the funds that are expended for that purpose. I look forward to that review and thank the Minister for his answers.
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 869
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I believe that requires no response from the Minister, unless the Minister wants to. No. Okay, I have the honourable Member for Yellowknife North and the honourable Member for Iqaluit. Mr. Erasmus.
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 869
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister had indicated that aboriginal students would get $5,400 and a non-aboriginal student would get $3,200, Single people. I was just looking at this book "A Blueprint for the Future" by Aurora College, which indicates people with grade 8 or less make an average of $13,000 a year. I flip back to this other page and I see that 33 percent of the aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories have grade 8 or less, Mr. Chairman. It indicates that only three percent of the non-aboriginal people in the western NWT have grade 8 or less. So I see a huge disparity in the amount of money that non-aboriginal people can provide to their kids when they go to school. The difference between what aboriginal people can provide. Only making $13,000 a year, you can not give too much to your kids when they want to buy another car or go to another concert when they are at school. Mr. Chairman, what I would like to know, do non-aboriginal people have to be born here before they are eligible for those forgivable loans?
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 869
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 869
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 869
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Erasmus.
Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 869
Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So if a person is only here for four years, they are eligible for one year of education. Is that forgivable?