Madam Chair, perhaps an example would be useful. We had a TV ad where an elder said forest fires are natural because that is the way the creator made it. Some doubting Thomas phoned in and said, "it is absolutely unacceptable because the Dene are preaching religious beliefs. Therefore, you should not be propagating it in your TV commercials." I said, "I do not know, what I hear may be different from what you heard. I heard a Dene elder say the creator makes creation in a way forest fires are a natural occurrence." What does that have to do with religious or spiritual beliefs? The fact is it is a natural occurrence, that is the point. Once the point was made, there was a conversion of the doubting Thomas. I do not know if I could do it for every specific case. There was an example of what was seen to be.

I think sometimes we get into these debates and we get mixed up about spiritual versus religious. We get into debates about interpretation. I think the debates are welcomed. It leads to a challenge to develop and refine our definitions and our policies. There are some derogatory elements to some people's thinking I categorically reject. If somebody is suggesting I have nothing to say, I have nothing to offer, my thousands of years of existence on this land are worth absolutely nothing, I reject that. I do not think it is particularly conducive to working in partnership with everyone else to resolve the many issues that faces. I wanted to make the point, debate is healthy. We need to continue to work to try to clarify ways with dealing. In my view, religion has nothing to do with it. Once we start defining spiritual beliefs, in some cases it has everything to do with it and in some cases it does not. Thank you.