Debates of Feb. 16th, 1998

This is page numbers 801 - 846 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Point Of Order

Accidental Death Of Department Of Transportation Employee

Ministers Absent From The House

Heritage Day In Canada

Spirits In The Sun Festival

Camps For Adult Offenders

Condolences To The Family Of Aiyow Qavavauq

Clean Up Of Cape Christian

Challenges For Young People

Midget Hockey Selection

Termination Benefits For Laidoff Employees

Kitikmeot-based Adult Offenders Camps

Lahm Ridge Tower Transaction

Return To Oral Question 281-13(5): Termination Of Northwest Territories Ski Coach

Return To Oral Question 240-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Lease Renewal; 286-13(5): Lahm Ridge Tower Lease Renewal; 304-13(5): Responses To Previous Questions

Return To Oral Question 293-13(5): Costs Of Yellowknife Office Lease Renewals

Kitikmeot-based Adult Offenders Camps

Clean Up Of Cape Christian

Termination Benefits For Laidoff Employees

Midget Hockey Selection Process

Aklavik Proposal For An Adult Offenders Camp

Available Office Space

Previous Assurances Regarding Unsigned Note

Assurance From Cabinet Members

Interjurisdictional Water Management

Fire Safety Inspections

Rcmp Attendance At The Legislature

Agreement For Coaching Training

Lahm Ridge Tower Purchase

Appeal Of Termination Benefits

Public Perception Of Cabinet

Enforcement Of Wildlife Regulations

Northern United Place Lease

Tabled Documents 49-13(5): Analysis Performed By Forensic Document Examiner

Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Item 18: Second Reading Of Bills

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

To Defer Further Consideration Of The Activity Asset Management, Department Of Public Works And Services

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have already answered several similar questions a few times. The answer is that it was a good business deal. The deputy minister tells me, at the time of the development of the Yellowknife office plan, it was deemed that the two departments that were in the Lahm Ridge Tower desired to remain in the building. The instruction of the deputy minister to the superintendent, was to negotiate with the owner, with the view of reducing the utility costs, dealing with the long-standing air handling problem and general improvements to the building. The superintendent was successful in negotiating under these conditions. As a result of

that, the agreement was reached. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps I can deal with the issue of what was developed as the principles behind the Yellowknife office plan. This is from, again, documentation the Minister has tabled in this House. These are not necessarily in this order, but these were principles put down:

-that the government ownership of space in Yellowknife should be minimized;

-that maximum local and northern private sector involvement be obtained that avoid excessive costs;

-and that lease contracts must be awarded through competitive proposal process.

Dealing with those principles, when they say the GNWT ownership of space in Yellowknife should be minimized, it is true they are selling the Laing Building, but there were parties interested in buying the Laing Building and the Stuart Hodgson Building. Did it not make sense to say, fill up the Laing Building, sell it to northern owners, sell the SMH building to northern owners. That building which is owned by a southerner on the way down to the hill, unfortunately, we are not interested in southerners. Would that not make a lot more sense, Mr. Chairman? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, it would have been good if it was that simple, but there are a lot of factors that have to be taken into consideration. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In some of the documentation, I recall there is also an interest ensuring an aboriginal component, where possible, to be involved in the real estate factor in Yellowknife with government buildings. There was an opportunity to have an aboriginal component in a couple of the buildings. Where has the aboriginal component gone to now? How do aboriginal organizations that have expressed an interest in buildings, how do they possibly get involved in the real estate business in Yellowknife?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, the decision by Cabinet to sell the Laing Building, the Tapwe Building and the RWED waterfront area was made only last month. The opportunity the honourable Member mentions, of aboriginal involvement in acquiring these assets, is still there. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

February 16th, 1998

Page 837

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you. I have a very important question. As I stated earlier, one of the issues in the principles that were stated was to avoid excessive cost. We are here to approve the budget. How do we know that you were able to avoid excessive cost? Can I be supplied the documentation and all the permutations versus the Laing Building and the Lahm Ridge Tower and some of the other space? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we do not have a document such as the honourable Member is asking for. Avoid excessive costs, yes, I agree that this government should try to avoid all excessive costs that are there, but a lot of these decisions are not based on costs alone. There are other factors. In this case, the Yellowknife office plan is taking into consideration the economy of the capital of the Northwest Territories here in Yellowknife. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Yes, Mr. Chairman. Of the principles, there were four main ones and I referred to them, I cannot tell you about number three which I referred to, excessive costs because I do not have the information in front of me. I am asking to have the information in front of me. I need to have that, but let me just conclude my questions in this round. There were four areas. One was that GNWT get out of ownership. Two, maximize local and northern private sector involvement. I asked the question about aboriginal involvement. That is not there. It was not offered. Three, excessive cost, I cannot get an answer to it. Four, lease contracts awarded through competitive proposal process. It was not awarded through a competitive proposal, it was just renewed. Mr. Chairman, I do not see how these principles were adhered to. Perhaps I can have some clarification on those principles because I do not see that they were adhered to. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 837

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 837

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have answered these questions over and over again. I have been trying to be clear as possible. I am trying to be as calm as possible, too. It is getting to the point where, what else can I offer here as a Minister to the honourable Member from Yellowknife in regard to his questions? He is asking these questions and I am not giving him the kind of answer that he wants.

I think that what I said is that the aboriginal content is still there. How clear can I be on that? I do not know what else he is asking here. We are getting out of the government ownership, minimizing government ownership of office space in Yellowknife. We are selling the Laing Building, we are selling the Tapwe Building, we are selling the RWED holdings down at the lake front.

Effective management of lease inventory to avoid excessive costs, the deputy minister and I have said time and time again, the Lahm Ridge Tower deal was a business deal. It had no political interference. Of all the leases we have, it is the third lowest. There are about eight other leases in Yellowknife which are higher than that. I do not see how much clearer I could be on maximizing private sector involvement in providing the GNWT office space in Yellowknife. There are a lot of businesses in Yellowknife. If we sell the Laing Building then there are 60,000 square feet in there. If we put all our offices in the Laing Building and the Stewart Hodgson Building then the excess office space that is out there will increase by that much. Is the honourable Member from Yellowknife saying, take it away from the real estate businesses in town and put everybody into the office building or is he agreeing with me saying that we should look at the economy of Yellowknife and try to accommodate them in this depressed time that we are entering here? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Member at this time is not able to answer because his time is out. We have Mr. Krutko on the list. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could the Minister give us an idea, you mentioned that out of eight real estate properties that you presently lease that the second lowest was the Lahm Ridge. You must have some information in front of you where you are coming out with this scenario. Is it possible that this document could be tabled with Members in the House so that we can see for ourselves exactly the savings to this government?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 838

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Yes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 838

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You made reference to the options document which was sent to Cabinet. Could you give us an idea of what was contained in that options document and when was it sent?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 838

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 838

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

The deputy minister will explain the options. It is a Cabinet document and normally we do not release these documents. Thank you.

Debates of Feb. 16th, 1998

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