Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could you tell me how much did they receive for administration of this program in Iqaluit?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am not sure if Mr. Devitt has it down to the dollar, but it is one full time equivalent per 2,000 cases. I could get that in terms of dollars and cents for the Member if he would like, but we do not have it with us today.

The point I am trying to get at is that the community of Tsiigehtchic, it is $4,000 to administer a program for a whole year and yet in this position, they get two full-time equivalent positions based on the formula you are using? The size of the community does not matter. The demand is the same. The program has to be delivered by someone. The cost of delivering a program should not be any less in a community of 200 people compared to a community of 4,000. One community gets $4,000 for a whole year, and this community gets two full-time positions for a year. Whom can you hire for $5,000 to work for a whole year to deliver a program?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If, in fact, Iqaluit is funded for two full-time positions, that would mean they are seeing more than 4,000 cases in the course of a year. In Fort McPherson, we are talking about hundreds of cases, not thousands of cases. Yes, there is a difference in the size of a community and in terms of how many visits to an income support worker takes place in the course of a year over what kinds of resources are required. It would be physically impossible for one person to handle the load in a community like Iqaluit. It should not take one person's full-time job to deliver it in a smaller community. In the pilot projects we found, in many cases, we worked with housing authorities and band councils that it just takes somebody on a part-time basis to perform the functions of income support. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Why is there such a drastic change from say, a community of Tsiigehtchic with 200 where they get $4,000 to administer a program for a whole year, and it does not matter if it is a community of Iqaluit or Yellowknife where they get two full-time positions? That is the problem I have. I do not think that is fair. What can you do with $5,000? It probably costs a charter for a Minister to go from one community to his riding, one trip. Yet this money has to last a whole year for a community to administer a program. That is the problem I have with the whole delivery program where a community, like Iqaluit, receives over $3 million and out of that they get two positions. Yet for the rest of the area, we get $1.41 million for support for the other communities. We talk about fairness and being equitable to all people in all communities. It does not look equitable to me. What is being done to ensure that fairness is distributed to all communities, no matter what the size?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, I would argue that we are approaching this in a fair way. Let us say that we discovered that it takes an average of ten minutes for an income support worker to fill out the form to determine whether somebody needs support. It takes ten minutes for every person they see to fill out that form. If there are 4,000 forms that have to be filled out in the course of the year that is 4,000 times ten minutes. In another community, there might only be 400 forms that have to be filled out in the course of the year. It would be then, 400 times ten-minutes. We pay the same rate. I do not know whether the number is ten-minutes, I was making that figure up, but we pay the same amount for the worker to fill out that same form. It depends on how many times that form is filled out in the community as to how much we pay. Again, I have to repeat that the number you see here for the town of Iqaluit, that includes what we pay the recipients of income support, that is not the cost to administer the program. The $3 million includes everything that we pay out for rent, food and all the other supports that we pay to people who are receiving income support.

You mean they even get money for rent? In Tsiigehtchic, they do not even have an office for the income support person that they are looking for. I have a real problem,

especially with the way this program has been allocated. It favours more of the larger centres than the service of the program to the smaller communities, just based on the geographical size of a community or where they are located. The program is workable in the larger centres so this program is more structured toward the larger centres. You have to realize that in the smaller communities where you do not have the necessities of life where you can attract people to do a job for $4,000 a year and trying to deliver a program for that amount of money. It just does not work. In my riding, a lot of the communities have come to the conclusion that it is not feasible for them to continue to maintain and deliver this program in their communities, because of the way the formula has been distributed and allocated. There has to be a fair way of delivering this program and serving all communities on some sort of a more equitable manner because I just cannot see it.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the approach is that the positions are funded equivalently. In other words, if we take the number of times an income support worker or person has to fill out the income support form or assist in filling it out, evaluate it. Everybody is paid for doing the same work. I would hope that the community would see this as an opportunity to take on a function that can be provided within their administration. If the community decides that they are not interested in delivering it, then we will have to discuss other agencies. We could go to the tent and canvass factory, perhaps, and ask if they have somebody who, on a part-time basis, could assist people to fill out the forms. If they would be prepared to do it for the same sort of contract level, or some other agency in the community, which is how we handled a lot of the pilot projects. We may have to look at flying a person into the community, or not necessarily flying, but bringing a person into the community for half a day a month. We may have to look at other options, if that is what the community wants. If it is not seen as worthwhile, we will certainly work with the community to find another alternative. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can the Minister tell me the breakdown of the community income support delivery program for $1.41 million, how much of that is allocated to Mackenzie Delta Region?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We do not have that detail with us. I will be happy to provide it to the Member.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The formula is one full-time equivalent for every 2,000 cases. This means visits, whether the person is accepted or refused for income support that counts as a case. That is typically, I believe, the salary equivalent of about $50,000 plus the northern living allowance for that community. There would be an adjustment to reflect that amount as well. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.