Thank you. Along these lines, I also have another concern. The department says that a simplified cost-effective analysis shows that an investment of just over $4 million in their budget into all aspects of tourism and related parks generated $30 million in tourism spending or a return of $6 on each $1 spent. However, Mr. Speaker, it is not just the $4 million that this government is spending. What about all the operators who are spending up to 30 percent of their budgets on advertising? How do we determine where we are getting this $30 million from? Surely we do not think that it is all because of the $4 million that we have spent?
Debates of Oct. 31st, 2000
This is page numbers 629 - 653 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was care.
Topics
Supplementary To Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 645
Supplementary To Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 645

The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Bell. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Finance, Mr. Handley.
Further Return To Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 645

Joe Handley Weledeh
Mr. Speaker, it is very difficult to determine where all of it comes from, but I am confident that if our government spent nothing on tourism and parks that the operators would be very hard pressed. So I think the Member is right and I think the implication in the document he is referring to is that yes, our $4 million is important to the industry, but so is the money that the private sector, the small operators, draw from their ventures and businesses. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Further Return To Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 646
Supplementary To Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 646

Brendan Bell Yellowknife South
Thank you. I think it is important when we talk about the kind of money we can generate through a proposed tax like the hotel tax, we look at our current success rate with other taxes that we implement. Take, for instance, the payroll tax. Can the Minister tell us if he believes we are currently able to accumulate a high proportion of possible payroll tax dollars that are out there? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 646

The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Bell. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Finance, Mr. Handley.
Further Return To Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 646

Joe Handley Weledeh
Mr. Speaker, yes. I am confident that we are collecting a high percentage of the payroll tax dollars that should be collected. We track it very carefully working closely with the Workers' Compensation Board. There may be a few people who slip through, but most people are pretty conscientious about paying their Workers' Compensation Board premiums, and that is what we use for our payroll tax as well. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 646

The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Minister Handley. Final supplementary for question period, Mr. Bell.
Supplementary To Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 646

Brendan Bell Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister is quite confident that we collect most of the payroll tax dollars out there and we work with the WCB to do this. I am wondering...you said that these things are difficult to track, and we have heard other statements like this before from the department, I am wondering how he can be so confident. What information does he have that would lead him to believe that we are getting all the payroll tax dollars remitted? Thank you.
Supplementary To Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 646

The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Bell. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Finance, Mr. Handley.
Further Return To Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 646

Joe Handley Weledeh
Mr. Speaker, I did not say we were getting all the payroll tax we are entitled to. I said we are getting, by far, most of it. I am sure, as I said, there are some people who will slip through and work in the Territories, not pay their worker's compensation benefits and we do not capture those. So there are some that slip through, but we do track it. We use our Workers' Compensation Board records to do it. We also follow up very closely on third party issues that are raised with us. I am confident, Mr. Speaker, that we are getting most of it, but we are not getting every last dollar. I am sure we are getting in a high 90 percent of what we are entitled to. Thank you.
Further Return To Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Question 170-14(3): Tourism Revenues And Taxation
Item 6: Oral Questions
Page 646

The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Minister Handley. Item 7, written questions. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.
Written Question 11-14(3): Compliance Audits Of Northwest Territories Businesses
Item 7: Written Questions
Page 646

Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is going to sound like it is set up. Following up from what Mr. Bell was just asking about, my written question is for the Minister of Finance.
- How many compliance audits of Northwest Territories businesses have been undertaken to see if proper amounts have been remitted pursuant to the Payroll Tax Act since its introduction?
- If payroll tax compliance audits have been undertaken of Northwest Territories businesses, can the Minister provide a breakdown of the numbers of audits by region?
- If such audits have been undertaken, can the Minister advise the number of times the audits found under reporting of payroll tax remittances?
- Have any payroll audits been conducted on southern firms conducting business in the Northwest Territories?
- How much does it cost to administer the payroll tax?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Written Question 11-14(3): Compliance Audits Of Northwest Territories Businesses
Item 7: Written Questions
Page 646

The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Dent. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Minister Handley.
Return To Written Question 1-14(3): Loan Guarantees, GNWT Debt And Northern Residents Deductions
Item 8: Returns To Written Questions
Page 646
Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton
Mr. Speaker, I have a return to a written question asked by Mr. Dent on June 21, 2000 regarding loan guarantees, GNWT debt and northern residents deductions.
- The GNWT has issued a total of $157,898,000 in guarantees for debt to the NWT Power Corporation, NWT Energy Corporation and NWT Housing Corporation.
The GNWT has issued a total of $22,200,000 in guarantees for debt to the secondary diamond industry.
Later today I will table a document showing the amounts of the issued guarantees in more detail.
- Later today, I will table the chart requested by Mr. Dent showing the minimum and maximum amounts of short-term debt owed by the GNWT in fiscal 1999-2000.
- The estimated pre-division Northwest Territories northern residents deduction, after adjustment to allow for late filers, was $105 million in 1997 and $115 million in 1998. These are the latest fiscal years for which this information is available. For the benefit of Members, the Northern residents deduction is a deduction from income subject to tax and is available to taxpayers in Canada who live in the NWT and other isolated parts of Canada in an amount equal to $5,490.
The estimated NWT share of the 1997 and 1998 northern residents deduction Is $77 million and $84 million respectively, with the remainder allocated to Nunavut.
Return To Written Question 3-14(3): Proposed Hotel Tax And Payroll Information
Item 8: Returns To Written Questions
Page 646
Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton
Mr. Speaker, I have a return to written question asked by Ms. Lee on June 28, 2000 regarding the Proposed Hotel Tax and Payroll Information.
- The annual revenue projected for the hotel tax is forecast to be $1,300,000.
- This is based on a total of 1180 rooms in 45 establishments. Later today, I will table the community breakdown of the location of the operators and the bed spaces in more detail.
- The average price used was $100 a room at an occupancy rate of 60 percent.
- It is expected that the ongoing administration and enforcement costs of the Hotel Room Tax Act including the salary, benefits, information collection, computer systems, office space, enforcement and incidental expenses will be $100,000.
It is also expected that there will be additional one-time implementation and start-up costs of $50,000.
- The total amount of payroll tax revenue raised by the GNWT In the last three fiscal years is $12,178,000 in 1997-98, $12,102,000 in 1998-99 and $8,876,000 in 1999-2000. The figures for 1999-2000 are on a post-Division basis.
- The budgeted cost of administering the payroll tax for 2000-2001, including the salary, benefits, information collection, computer systems, office space, enforcement and incidental expenses is $163,000.
- All employees in the Northwest Territories pay payroll tax. The Department of Finance does not maintain a database of the total number of employees from whom the tax is collected. Although employers are obliged to report information by employee, this data is kept for audit purposes only.
- The total number of employers registered to collect the payroll tax in the last three calendar years is 2,068 in 1997, 1,663 in 1998 and 1,474 in 1999. The figures for 1999 are on a post-Division basis.
Return To Written Question 4-14(3): GNWT Duty Travel Expenses
Item 8: Returns To Written Questions
Page 646
Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton
Mr. Speaker, I have a return to written question asked by Ms. Lee on June 29, 2000 on Government of the Northwest Territories duly travel expenses:
- • In fiscal year 1997-98 total duty travel expense was $22,210,608
- • In fiscal year 1998-99 total duty travel expense was $23,595,801
- • In fiscal year 1999-00 total duty travel expense was $25,188,317
These figures are for the western Territories only and are drawn from the Government of the Northwest Territories' Financial Information System (FIS). They do not include duty travel expenses for the Education Boards, Health Boards, Hospitals, the Housing Corporation, Workers' Compensation Board and the Northwest Territories Power Corporation as these organizations have their own separate Financial Information Systems.
The Financial Information System does not distinguish between northern and southern travel.
Recent enhancements to our Financial Information System have made it possible, for fiscal year 1999-2000, to determine that of approximately $3 million spent on hotels by Government of the Northwest Territories' employees, approximately $2.1 million or roughly 67 percent was spent within the Northwest Territories.
Return To Written Question 5-14(3): Support For Northern Manufacturers In Inter-jurisdictional Ventures
Item 8: Returns To Written Questions
Page 646
Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton
Mr. Speaker, I have a return to written question asked by Mr. Krutko on July 5, 2000 regarding the support for northern manufacturers in inter-jurisdictional ventures.
- The current project to construct a seniors multiplex in Stebbins, Alaska is a pilot project combining training and construction. The training was subcontracted to Aurora College and the construction was subcontracted to Dowland Construction Limited. Dowland Construction is a Northern firm and a licensed Alaskan contractor.
- The Northwest Territories Housing Corporation's main purpose of securing additional projects outside of our normal programs is to provide opportunities for Northern suppliers and manufacturers to expand their markets. The Housing Corporation always uses a competitive bid process and only seeks bids from Northern suppliers and manufacturers. The tender and contracting regulations are always followed. The Interim Manufacturing Directive is also applied.
- A list of projects will be tabled later, however, the information you have requested regarding individual businesses cannot be unilaterally released as requested. The provisions of the Access to information and Protection of Privacy Act apply.
- The Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development has provided the following answer to your questions regarding the Business Incentive Policy and the North American Free Trade Agreement.
The application of the Business Incentive Policy by the Government of the Northwest Territories and its agencies does not infringe on any obligation under the North America Free Trade Agreement.
The Business Incentive Policy is a government procurement policy and is therefore governed by Chapter 10 of the North America Free Trade Agreement, Government Procurement. Under Article 1001: Scope and Coverage, it states that this Chapter applies to measures adopted or maintained by a Party relating to procurement: (iii) for state and provincial government entities, the applicable threshold, as set out in Annex 1001.1a-3 in accordance with Article 1024 (Further Negotiations).
Annex 1000.1a-3 State and Provincial Government Entities states: coverage under this Annex will be the subject of consultations with state and provincial governments in accordance with Article 1024.
These negotiations have not been completed and therefore the North America Free Trade Agreement does not apply to procurement by the Government of the Northwest Territories. The purchase of construction and building materials by federal governments is also not covered by the North America Free Trade Agreement.
Annex 1001.1b-1 Goods, Sections A -- List of Certain Goods and B -- General Provisions, clearly exempts these types of products.
Return To Written Question 6-14(3): Information Regarding Douglas Anderson
Item 8: Returns To Written Questions
Page 646
Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton
Mr. Speaker, I have a return to written question asked by Mr. Bill Braden on July 5, 2000 regarding any further information or reports concerning the reasons Douglas Anderson was taken from family and into the care of the Government.
The department has, over the course of two years, conducted several searches for information pertaining to Mr. Anderson and has forwarded a considerable number of records to the applicant. The department also arranged for records held by the Government of Nunavut and relevant to Mr. Anderson's request to be sent to Yellowknife. These records were subsequently released to Mr. Anderson.
The Department of Health and Social Services has not, after extensive searches, identified any further records relevant to the applicant's request. In your question, you refer to a Document 59 that was cited in a letter from the department to Mr. Anderson. This document was noted in the letter as being not received by the department. Unfortunately, department staff made a clerical error; the department clearly received the document and it was released to Mr. Anderson. Document 59 should have been noted as being illegible.
Return To Written Question 7-14(3): Palliative Care
Item 8: Returns To Written Questions
Page 646
Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton
Mr. Speaker, I have a return to written question asked by Mr. Brendan Bell on July 5, 2000, regarding palliative care.
1. Q. Recognizing the demand for palliative care facilities and the need for alternative care will surely increase over the years, I would be interested to receive statistics relating to the number of deaths per year due to terminal illness and deaths of palliative care patients.
A. There are approximately 200 deaths per year in the NWT, The NWT Health Status Report 1999 (chapter 4) indicates that between 1991 and 1996, cancers accounted for about 25 percent of all the deaths, circulatory diseases for about 23 percent and respiratory diseases for about 18 percent of all deaths.
How many of these deaths result from terminal illness depends on how terminal illness is defined. One way to answer the question about terminal illness would be to determine the proportion of deaths attributable to chronic illness. This has not been done because death certificate data on the length of illness is not sufficiently reliable.
Information about the number of palliative care deaths is not available as statistics on deaths due to terminal illness and palliative care may be one and the same. Palliative care is a specialized form of managed health care for individuals who, along with their families, are living with a life-threatening or terminal illness (usually at an advanced stage). Palliative care services are helpful not only when an individual is approaching death, but also in the early stages of a terminal illness. It is at this point that where the care for the terminally ill becomes the same as palliative care.
2. Q. Please provide a breakdown as to whether deaths occurred in hospitals, other facilities or in home settings over the past five years.
A. Statistics on the place of death for the terminally ill or palliative care client will not be available until the fall of 2000. The data will provide information about the location of death (i.e.. whether it occurred in a hospital, other facility or home care setting), but it will not identify clients who die in palliative care beds because the type of bed (e.g., emergency, palliative, long term) is not recorded on the death certificate.
3. Q. Please provide a cost analysis of palliative care for the terminally ill, including a breakdown of the hours of care required to provide service by physicians and nurses, as well as the additional costs incurred for other hospital services.
A.It is not possible to provide an accurate analysis for all costs relating to palliative care.
Physicians fee schedules and diagnostic codes do not identify terminal or palliative care conditions. In addition, systems currently used do not have the capability to provide a breakdown of precise information on time spent by a physician, nurse or support staff with each terminally ill or palliative care client.
The length of a stay of a terminally ill or palliative client in a hospital, home care setting or other facility is only a partial indicator of the time and costs. Other elements of palliative care will have been administered at various times during the earlier stages of the client's illness, The gradual inclusion of these elements, such as visits to nurses at community health centres, home visits, home care services, are also not broken down into a statistical format.
Likewise, palliative care services are provided by a variety of other trained and untrained caregivers, including family members, social workers, spiritual counsellors, home care workers and nurses. Other supports may be obtained from dieticians, physiotherapists, occupational therapists and volunteer workers. The main goal of palliative care is to provide comfort and dignity to the individual and their family.
4. Q. What is the number of current hospital beds allocated at Stanton Regional Hospital to accommodate the needs of the terminally ill or those requiring palliative care?
A. Stanton Regional Hospital has two rooms specifically identified for palliative care. One room is on the Extended Care Ward and one room is on the Medical Ward. Each room has one bed.
As there are often a number of terminally ill clients on both floors, whether for a brief or extended period of time, there may be elements of palliative care being administered to a varied number of clients at various locations and levels of the hospital. The admission of a client to a palliative care room does not limit the use of palliative care in other rooms and in other locations such as the client's home or a community long-term care facility.
Return To Written Question 8-14(3): Fiberglass Water And Sewer Tanks
Item 8: Returns To Written Questions
Page 646
Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton
Mr. Speaker, I have a return to written question asked by Mr. Dent on July 5, 2000 regarding fiberglass water and sewer tanks.
- During this period, the NWT Housing Corporation specified a 325-gallon polyethylene water tank and a 504-gallon fiberglass sewer tank for use in its Homeownership Assistance Program and Retrofit Program. Records for this time period have been archived and were disposed of after seven years and are no longer available.
The last record for a purchase of a 504-gallon insulated fiberglass sewage tank is from 1992 for a cost of $4320.00 F.O.B. Yellowknife
- The average price paid for fiberglass tanks used in Homeownership Programs and Independent Housing Programs, F.O.B. Yellowknife for the years 1995 through 1999 were:
500 gallon low profile water tank $1954.52
- 1000 gallon low profile sewage tank $3124.78
504 gallon insulated sewage tank $4367.99
Return To Written Question 9-14(3): Ownership Of Treatment Facilities
Item 8: Returns To Written Questions
Page 646
Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton
Mr. Speaker, I have a return to written question asked by Mr. Dent on July 6, 2000, regarding the ownership of the treatment facilities.1. Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC) holds the first mortgage on the detox facility on Franklin Avenue and the Dettah Road facility known as the Northern Addictions - Rehab.
- The Government of the Northwest Territories does not guarantee the mortgages for either facility, rather we indemnify CMHC against any losses should Northern Addictions Services (NAS) default on their mortgage payments.
- NAS owns the Rehab facility on the Dettah Road and the NWT Housing Corporation just recently (October 20, 2000) took title to the Franklin Avenue Detox project.
- In an effort to protect the Rehab facility from possible freeze ups, the Housing Corporation covered various utilities, building maintenance costs and building security. In total, the Housing Corporation provided close to $40,000 towards utilities, maintenance and building security. The Housing Corporation is currently recovering this additional funding from NAS.
- The Housing Corporation administers both a first and a second mortgage on the Northern Addictions Rehab facility. The outstanding balance on the first mortgage is $2,820,823.52 and the second mortgage balance is $105,861.96.
Return To Written Question 10-14(3): Departmental Expenditures Related To Treatment Facilities
Item 8: Returns To Written Questions
Page 646
Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton
Mr. Speaker, I have a return to written question asked by Mr. Charles Dent on July 6, 2000, regarding departmental expenditures related to treatment facilities.
1. Q. After the contract with Northern Addictions Services (NAS) was canceled, did Health and Social Services make any payments related to the contract, and if so, how much?
A. Following the expiry of the 1998-99 agreement, the department entered into two contribution agreements with NAS, as follows:
(1) A Contribution Agreement, for the period April 1 - June 30, 1999, in the amount of $341,499; the purpose of which was to wind down existing programs; conduct an outcome study of NAS clients for the previous three years; complete an assets inventory; develop an accurate operating budget; identify the NAS debt: and participate in the joint department-board-NGOs consultation process to review alternative programming options for addictions.
(2) A Contribution Agreement, for the period May 27 to June 12, 1999, in the amount of $14,520.00; the purpose of which was to cover the costs of meals, accommodations and (local) transportation for 41 community alcohol and drug workers to participate in training workshops at the Dettah facility.
2. Q. Has the Department of Health and Social Services paid any rent, lease or mortgage payments, and-or utility costs for the Franklin Avenue Detox Centre or the Dettah Road facility known as the Somba K'e Healing Lodge since April 1, 1999? If so, how much?
A. (1) The department, through the April 1-June 30, 1999 Contribution Agreement, indirectly contributed $21,096.67 towards mortgage and utility payments for both the Franklin Avenue and Dettah Road facilities.
(2) The department entered into a tenancy-at-will arrangement with NAS and the NWT Housing Corporation for the Franklin Avenue facility for the period July 1,1999 to April 14, 2000.
- • Mortgage payments in the amount of $23,633.11 were transferred directly to the NWT Housing Corporation, the mortgage holder, for the period July 1, 1999 to March 31, 2000.
- • Utilities and taxes In the amount of $21,829.14 were paid directly to the utility companies and the City of Yellowknife by the Yellowknife Health and Social Services Board.
- • An invoice for approximately $2,625.90, representing a pro-rated mortgage payment for the period April 1 to 14, 2000, will be received from the NWT Housing Corporation in the near future.
(3) The department has not made any direct or indirect rent, lease, mortgage or utilities payments for the Dettah Road facility since the expiry of the April - June 1999 Contribution Agreement.
3. Q. How much did Health and Social Services pay in salaries and training for staff from these facilities after April 1,1999?
A. An employee-employer relationship did not exist between the department and NAS. The April 1 to June 30, 1999 Contribution Agreement, however, included a budgeted amount of $246,889.96 for salaries and benefits.
Indirectly, the department also made in-kind contributions through the facilitation and delivery of specific sections of the training workshops held in May and June, 1999.
4. Q. Under the terms of the contribution agreement, ownership of the furnishings should have passed to the GNWT when NAS ceased operating the facilities. Did the GNWT take possession of all furnishings? If not, what is the value of the furnishings taken over?
A. Under the terms of the contribution agreement, the furniture, furnishings and non-fixed capital items did not have to be returned to the department unless the termination clauses of the Agreement were invoked. Since the Agreement simply expired on June 30, 1999, NAS did not have any legal obligation to return the assets to the department.
In compliance with the terms of the April to June 1999 contribution agreement, NAS did conduct an inventory of assets for both facilities. The inventory, however, did not include a replacement or depreciated value for the assets.
5. Q. If furnishings were missing, what was their value, based on original purchase price? Has any effort been made to recover any missing assets?
A. It cannot be said that any of the furniture, furnishings and non-fixed capital assets are missing. NAS purchased the assets in the Franklin Avenue facility with funding from a second mortgage with one of the local banks. NAS continues to be financially responsible for the second mortgage. As the non-fixed assets in that facility belong to NAS, no effort can be made to recover them.
Return To Written Question 10-14(3): Departmental Expenditures Related To Treatment Facilities
Item 8: Returns To Written Questions
Page 651

The Speaker Tony Whitford
Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Any further returns to written questions? Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.
Bill 2: Write-off Of Debts Act, 2000-01Bill 3: Forgiveness Of Debts Act, 2000-01Bill 7: Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment ActBill 9: An Act To Amend The Northwest Territories Power Corporation Act
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Page 651

Charles Dent Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to report to the Legislative Assembly that the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight has reviewed Bill 2, Write-off of Debts Act, 2000-01; Bill 3, Forgiveness of Debts Act, 2000-01; Bill 7, Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act; and Bill 9, An Act to Amend the Northwest Territories Power Corporation Act, and wishes to report that Bills 2, 3, 7 and 9 are ready for consideration of committee of the whole. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.