Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Member has made a number of extremely good observations in this whole area. The fact that we do have low levels of education, low levels of literacy is of concern. It is a criteria that enters into this whole area of how do we face the challenge.

As the Member stated, the challenge is on our doorstep. It is coming onto us very rapidly this winter, where oil and gas companies are doing substantive exploration work in certain areas of the Territory, so yes, it is a tremendous challenge.

I believe the other item the Member is emphasizing is that we should not do this all ourselves and he is absolutely right. There are organizations out there that are able to deliver a lot of programs on their part, and they are willing to contribute to this. I will use, for example, the mine training committee which has developed short-term courses, 19 in total, that they can apply to train people on a very quick basis. I met recently with the mine training committee and one of their desires is to expand their particular program beyond the mining area and include it into the oil and gas sector as well.

What they can do is take the modules they have developed, then they can move that around the Territories. They are in the process of doing that. I am very supportive of that.

As well, the college, and I believe some Members may be familiar with that, recently developed a mobile container to move from community to community to do short-term training. That is done in conjunction with the college as well as industry. I know for a fact that the oil industry themselves are very keen on any area of support they can garner. They are very busy drilling and exploring in other parts of the country as well, so that the amount of resources that they can access, the human resources they can access, has its limitations. They are interested in doing what is possible with the people here in the North. They want to ensure that they can access a workforce here. They are prepared to work on areas of support that they can possibly provide help in.

We have just signed a memorandum of understanding with Petroleum Industry Training System out of Alberta and they offer numerous courses. These are the people who are the professionals in that area. They are the ones who can put people to work very quickly.

Then we get into the whole question that was raised earlier, of education. Yes, we do need to get people upgraded. We need to get those who are in the school system to try and stay in the school system as long as possible. That is one of the efforts we have to do so we get people who enter as high a level of job potential as possible and keep them moving through the stream. After several years we are maximizing the number of people who are in the system and it cannot be just at the lower levels. We have to ensure that it is at all levels.

I will use another example of training that industry is interested in having undertaken. BHP had a meeting with me and explained their breakdown of employees. Some are in the unskilled, some are in the semi-skilled, and others are in the skilled area. The numbers there are quite interesting. In the unskilled, and I will be hypothetical here, but it is approximately 20 to 25 percent. In the semi-skilled, it is approximately 20 to 25 percent. That is a large percentage of their workforce. Many of them are northern people who are employed in those particular areas.

BHP wants to ensure that they take those who are in the unskilled area, that they are able to move into the skilled areas as opportunities arise. The challenge is that they need to have developed the individuals in those areas with better literacy levels. They did a testing of some of their employees and they want to ensure that the employees do have an adequate understanding and capability to perform their jobs.

The company itself has approached our federal Member of Parliament for some support, and they have approached me as well for support for their particular request. It is an indication that industry is interested in hiring Northerners. It is a matter of how that is accomplished, and we are working hard to ensure that we have cooperative, open door access to industry to find out what their needs are. We believe we have identified that somewhat in here, how to address some of their problems. In turn, we need to know what kind of contributions industry can make towards employment of our people, as well as training of our people. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think I had better speak because we live by the principle that unless you speak, you are consenting to everything else that has been said here.

Mr. Chairman, I just want to say that I did not have a chance to read this until about a half-hour ago, and I think I have gone through and read most of it. I would like to say that I like what I see from the first look of it. I recall that I had asked the Minister a question in this House in the summer, asking whether the department had information that sort of looked like something like this, and I recall having a long conversation outside of here with the deputy minister about this.

I think this is really just a summary and sort of a bird's eye view of what we are facing, which is tremendous economic opportunities and having to deal with something that is really not a bad thing. You know, we have all these opportunities and we are trying to make sure our people are trained to take advantage of that.

I like the identification of issues and challenges which recognizes the lower educational levels of our population, especially the unemployed population, and recognizing the regional disparities between our communities. Certainly everyone would agree that some of the problems faced by communities are so different than the situation in larger centres, especially in Yellowknife.

I am concerned about the fact that we are not able to put in the kind of money we should be able to. We probably are not even spending anywhere near as much as the private sector can.

Many Members on this side were at the BHP site just this past weekend. We had a first-hand briefing about the employment situation there. I was just briefly going through my notes from that visit and they said they are looking for 150 trades people that they cannot find. They have surpassed their target and I have no reason to question their statistics. The impression I received was that they would hire any Northerner, aboriginal or non-aboriginal, who could do the work that they have available. I am getting the feeling that I have said all of this before. Sometimes you get that feeling here.

I wonder if I could just ask...I like the fact that you have numbers now. We know that we may need up to 5,000 jobs in a certain time period, ten years or something. We know there are about 3,000 people who are unemployed. That is a good thing that we know what we are dealing with now. You have a breakdown by region as to who is unemployed.

Seeing as we do not have $12 million infused into this program, I am assuming the department must be looking at what they have already, because you do have a budget for the non-conventional students, those who are in trades, who need upgrading, who need literacy. I wonder what the budget is for that and whether you are looking to use this document to coordinate what is already there. Just because we do not have massive amounts of money to put in there does not mean that we cannot be using this document. I am hoping you are using this document to look at what you have and the resources you have and to co-ordinate that effort.

At the same time, I would like some more information about what the stay in school campaign is about. I see that if you had the money, you would like to spend about $10,000 a year on that. I would also like to know what just-in-time training is.

I have an issue I would like to raise with the Minister later on, but maybe I could get a short answer to those questions, seeing as how I have already used 15 minutes. Thank you.

The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The information is evolving as we work our way through this area. It is a document that has been worked on for the past number of months. It certainly is the start of a framework.

It does reference issues and challenges that are out there. In that fashion we try to address how to address the challenges. Of course, I will just make reference to the challenges because they are rather interesting, since Ms. Lee made reference to them.

One of the challenges is the low education levels. We are addressing that through various means; workplace literacy programs, basic skill development, stay-in-school programs, promoting trades, apprenticeships, and providing labour market information. We have a regional disparity and lack of infrastructure and transportation. We have some areas referenced in the document of how to address that.

We address the challenge of the boom-bust economy. Should skills be transferable? We are encouraging Northerners to consider employment perhaps outside of their own specific region, because it may shift. We need to address the issue of mobility.

Then there is the challenge of the under-developed private sector. We have to work with small businesses to develop capacity and human resource plans and promote the development of sophisticated support systems in the Northwest Territories. Of course, then we get to the regulatory environment area. That is an issue on its own.

I am familiar with the issue at BHP. My information was that their concern was mostly in the area of providing basic education programs to those in the unskilled area. We have information broken down by region, so it is all good information. Perhaps I will leave it at that to allow Ms. Lee some time to address further questions.

Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am sure the Minister could probably tell us what is good about this for hours. I have already said I like what I see, so let me just move on to what I had a problem with. On page 7 of this document, it says that one of the principles of this strategy is that there should be equal opportunities for men and women in all education and training initiatives.

Also, I have mentioned in this House about the GNWT's policy on equality to men and women in the Northwest Territories. I think there is a requirement to do general analysis of government policies. I do not see any breakdown at all about what the strategy is to ensure that all training opportunities, if there are any, that programs are designed in such a way that you are looking to hire as many women as possible. I wonder if all of the figures you have here include women and men. I do not think I have seen a breakdown of that. It is a really good breakdown of who is available to work and who is able but not employed and so on. I wonder if the Minister could answer that question as well as what the next step is with this.

The Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. All of our programs have to address the issue of equality and all factors, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps I could ask Mr. Cleveland to address this in more detail.

Mr. Cleveland.

Mr. Delorey.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have not had this for very long. In going through this, when I first received it, you have to think of all of the other packages we have like this in our office that have been collected since we took office here. They all have strategies. There is a lot of work that has gone into this and the figures look pretty rosy, but they are all a pipe dream, I guess. An item sitting on the shelf if we do not have any money to put towards them.

One of the things that concerns me about it is that we are all doing all of these strategies on a hope. A hope that the federal government is going to come through with these monies. I think somewhere along the line reality has to set in as to how much money we can put in and still be waiting for the amount of money that the federal government is going to come up with.

One of the fears that I have is what we are seeing right now in our communities where we cannot look after the basics that we have right now. In the Department of Education, for example, we have set strategies and we like to come out and say that we have put a lot of importance in preschool kids to get them started on the right foot, to get them ready for education.

We have play schools out there right now that cannot afford to operate and there is no money in this government to put into them to get the kids started properly. Somewhere along the line, we are going to have to put priority on it and then be prepared to put some money into it.

I took one thing that Mr. Cleveland said, on the fact that they keep kids moving through school at a level that is going to get them to the alternative, to the top level, and at the same time be prepared to go on when they get there. I hear from teachers in my community that we lose and are still losing a lot of kids after grade 10 because when they get there, they are not ready for grade 10. They are not ready for grade 11. Between grade 10 and grade 12, we lose them because we are not putting the resources in to help them when they get to grade 10, for the ones who need extra help. It is a real concern that I have and I think that somewhere along the line we have to realize that we have got to do some prioritizing.

It is great to see a four-year plan to go ahead with this. When we talk about non-renewable resource development, I can go back to 25 years ago, when the Mackenzie Valley pipeline came to a halt. It came to a halt because aboriginal people were saying that they were not ready, they did not have the education to take part in resource development, and so Judge Berger suggested a ten year moratorium so that we would have a chance to settle land claims and self governments and educate our people to be ready to take part in resource development. This is not ten years later, this is 25 years later or 26 years later. The reality is that plans do not always work out here.

Now, how much are we going to put into this strategy, the tourism strategy, waiting for the federal government? While we are waiting for the federal government, we are taking money out of our budgets right now that are affecting some of the very basic programs that we have to help our people. I think we have to somewhere along the line decide what are the options we have. What can we do if the federal government does not come through with $14 million, they only come through with $6 million? Or if they do not come through with $6 million, what if they come through with $3 million? What do we do? Where do we prioritize? Do we just throw a little bit here and a little bit there and end up with not really a lot at the end of it, I guess? I fully commend the department and every department that puts a strategy ahead and wants to go along with economic development and resource development. I support that.

I guess the reality for me is that we have to see the money one of these days or it is going to be tough to go along with it. It is the same thing with the Northwest Territories regulatory system. Industry is still here. We are here now saying that we are ready to go. We are ready for development. We want development to come in, but industry is still saying that our regulatory process is one of the toughest ones to deal with. We have to make some progress. We have to put some things in place to encourage development. I think we are really slow in that area.

The other areas I have a problem with is that we are going to have to show we are ready to share some of this wealth around the Territories as well. The oil and gas sector supposedly is not a Yellowknife deal like the diamonds are. Yet what work is being done in oil and gas right now? A lot of it is being done in Yellowknife again. I mean, meetings are taking place about oil and gas. They are taking place here in Yellowknife again. There is no reason for that.

There is money tied in with these studies and these big conferences and these meetings. There is money for communities out there for these, if we send them out there. I would certainly like to see us start doing some of that to show the rest of the Territories that yes, we are interested in the whole of the Territories. I probably will have some more questions or comments on this before it all comes to a reality, but for now, that is all I am going to say, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate Mr. Delorey's areas of concern. I would like to point out that we are not Yellowknife oriented with our particular approach. We did support the meeting that took place in Hay River on oil and gas, and in another week and a half there is a symposium in Inuvik. We are supportive of that. We are trying to participate in these as much as possible and ensure there are regional areas here that are directly affected by oil and gas, but it affects the whole of the Territory, so we are concerned about that and try to support that as much as possible.

The question with regard to the fact, okay, we have a work plan here, what if we do not get the money? We had to take this step in order to support an approach, and I want to emphasize that. We cannot lose track of the fact that we have to pre-plan. We have to set things in motion that addresses the potential areas. This particular report does not address a lot of areas. It contains statistical information. It points out the challenges, some of which I made reference to earlier, and how we intend to address those challenges. It is a framework by which to start addressing some of the concerns that are out there and some of the areas we need to work on.

We also want to work with industry to see how we can partner together in this whole thing, partner with other organizations. Not all of it depends strictly on dollars. We have to develop an understanding of what every area can contribute and industry can contribute tremendously here. We need to ensure we have industry on side to say yes, this is what we can do. They have a tremendous stake in this. After all, in the Beaufort Delta area this winter, we are talking upwards of, I am not sure, but over $100 million, I believe, in the Mackenzie Valley this year. We are talking possibly $200 million worth of work. So there is a tremendous amount of interest on the part of industry here to work on this area.

This particular document helps me with industry as well to discuss areas of concern and to say this is our problem, here is one of our plans. Yes, it is a submission as part of the larger submission to the federal government, but how industry can help out here to address some of these concerns. Thank you.

Mr. Bell.

Thank you. Recognizing the clock, I will keep my comments fairly short and Mr. Ootes can possibly give me a response so that other Members will get a chance.

He mentioned we would be remiss if we did not have working documents and strategies before we got the money, and we can hardly be expected to get money if we cannot show how we intend to use it. I would agree with Mr. Ootes in this respect. I think where I would disagree is in the fact that these documents have been made public. There have been press releases. Numbers like $12 million have been thrown around. It is not the department's fault that when they publicize the fact that we have spent $500,000 but hope to spend $12 million. That is what the public sees. They see the $12 million. They do not see the $500,000 that we have allocated already. I do not know if it is irresponsible but it certainly raises hopes among the people of the Northwest Territories that we are going to have all of this money and have all of these positions and do all of these great things, when in fact that may or may not be the case.

That is just a comment. I would not argue that we need strategies. I just do not know why we could not keep these things internal and get some feedback before we go and do a dog and pony show. I do not mean that with any disrespect, but when we get calls such as, "Where do we go and sign up for these positions?", I do think that it is irresponsible.

The other question I have is we have looked at these five-year plans and I agree we can move these things on as we get the money, but this is a political question and maybe it is a question for the Premier. At what point are we going to give up? At what point are we going to say we have a Non-Renewable Resource Strategy, we have a Human Resource Development Strategy, we have whatever. It requires federal funds. We are not getting any federal funds. Is there going to be a date and time six months down the road? A year down the road? A year and a half? Five years? Certainly the public is not going to stand for us carrying this on for ten years, hoping that we will get federal money in the neighbourhood of $200 million.

So I am hoping that Mr. Ootes can sort of speak to when he expects we will make the decision to pull the plug, as it were, if we are not going to get any money?

Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The document was part of the Non-Renewable Resource Strategy, an expansion of a request to address 19 areas. This is an expansion of that.

When I was interviewed by the press, they were the ones who asked me about the document. I was prepared to give it to them. I had given it to the MLAs I believe a month before that and I do not see any need to suggest not to release this because we need to deal with the Non-Renewable Resource Strategy and we dealt with that in the summer time. This is an expansion of that particular area.

With regard to how that is put across in the press, I will be the last, and I am serious about this, I will not tell the press how to do their work. I was part of it for 20 years and you do not tell the press people how to write their stories. I was very emphatic to them that it was a proposal to the federal government. I was not intimating that this was $12 million that we had in our pocket that we could magically put on the table. I was very, very emphatic with them over that. How it comes across is their responsibility and their business.

Now, with regard to whether we are going to get this money and when, we are working on this. We have been working on this for some time and, as the Member well knows, we are in the middle of an election at the moment so there are some hurdles here.

However, when I was in Fredericton and met with the Honourable Jane Stewart, one of the objectives that she is trying to develop is a skills framework, whereby funding for this type of program can be funneled through and into programs like this. We are not the only jurisdiction that is working to have that kind of framework established. There are other jurisdictions as well.

It is under development by the Ministers across Canada, Ministers of employment and labour who want to address this particular funding area that Minister Stewart wants to have developed.

I see an opportunity that is still there to access. As well, we have had indications from the federal government of their interest. Thank you.

Mr. Bell.

Thank you. Just quickly, I do not doubt that our government and this Minister are working very hard on this. I know he has been to see Jane Stewart. I am not suggesting that they are not working hard on this or do not have a chance of getting some money, but I am asking, in the event that we do not get any money, God forbid, will we move on to other things and say, "Hey, this was a valiant try, but at some point we have to get on with business and leave this behind and deal with what we do have?"

Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The document is available for us to work with. It is available right now for us to work with to be able to illustrate to industry, for example, what we want done, how we want to go about getting things done and in the areas we need things done in.

It is a document that is very valuable from our point of view to use in support of working in partnership with aboriginal groups, with industry and so forth. I believe that has a tremendous amount of value. We have ongoing programs we are supporting, Mr. Chairman. Many of them that are there and, as I mentioned, we are supporting the mine training committee. We are supporting the community mobilization group. There are a multitude of areas that we are going in and I believe that this is important work and that we are making progress in this area. We need funding of this sort in order to move forward quickly.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. McLeod.