Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again referring to the Minister's opening comments yesterday, there was a discussion of the parks and tourism division. The second priority of the department is the development of the tourism strategy. I am aware of at least two similar documents, one of which is a collection of, from my understanding, some knowledge, experience and suggestions that have come up from the department, but not mandated specifically towards a tourism strategy.

The second document, which I understand we are going to see next week sometime, is the report of the economic strategy panel.

I wanted to ask the Minister what kind of approach or design does the department have in mind in terms of building this strategy in consultation with the industry? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have made a commitment to complete a strategy by the end of the calendar year. We have been doing some work in the department. As I mentioned before, in talking with some of the Northwest Territories Tourism Association people, they have been doing some work as well.

We intend to move toward a comprehensive strategy. The document we have prepared, the drafts and so on, have been done in consultation with the tourism associations, as well as the chambers of commerce, some regional tourism people, and so on. The intention is, as we move along, to do this cooperatively as we have done with other strategies, like the protected areas strategy, where we bring everybody in, including aboriginal governments and so on.

It will very much be a collaborative effort. The target for completing it is the end of the calendar year.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One other area I would like to explore is the area of small business development, specifically to training and support for the various skills that are involved in running a small business.

Looking at the department's plans, something I do not see in there is anything directed to this kind of support for the small business community. There may be something in Education, Culture and Employment that covers this, but what I have in mind, Mr. Chairman, is not something that would be a business administration matter or things of this nature that might be offered through our college system. It would be small-scale, easily delivered programs on a community scale that can assist small businesses in areas such as cash-flow management, personnel and recruiting, marketing, bookkeeping...the nuts and bolts, Mr. Chairman, of running a small business.

What kind of delivery mechanism do we have in the North, with the department or otherwise, that can help small businesses through these day to day chores? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we have a number of staff in each of the regions whose responsibility is economic development support. We also have the community economic development services section in headquarters. In addition to that, there are a number of economic development officers in the regions. Some of them report to us. Some of them work for municipal governments or the band councils.

The kind of support the Member is referring to is really important to the small businesses. Because it is not structured courses or anything, which would be the responsibility of Education, Culture and Employment, we intend to do it at the regional or at the community level. We do it on an as-needed basis and try to respond. I think it works quite well in some areas. Maybe in other areas, not as well as the business would like.

We also have to be very careful that we do not get into interfering in a private businessman's way of operating. It is his business. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A suggestion that these courses can, and I think would, be very well subscribed to if they were presented on a proactive basis, with the idea that they are delivered at convenient times and places at a community and regional level.

I think all too often small businesses have a tendency, and I speak from a former life as a small business person, that there is a tendency to wait until it is too late, until difficulties come up or people ask for help. The government could be providing a good service to the small business community if it was proactive and took a lead in delivering this kind of service. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, Mr. Chairman, I take the Member's advice. We try to do that to the best of our ability. I guess we just have to keep working at it to get it to the stage where everybody is satisfied. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. The Chair recognizes Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a few questions I would like to ask Mr. Handley, and a few points I would like to make. Initially, I would like to start off and refer a bit to the tourism strategy that is in the works. I believe we really have to get going in this area and have an overall look at the tourism industry and see what kinds of things we can do to stimulate growth in this area. I think it is critical for diversifying the economy.

Mr. Handley has discussed several initiatives he feels are going to be used to promote tourism. One thing I would like to discuss is a constituent's concern, which was the lack of a presence at Expo. The committee has also made mention of this, that we did not attend Expo 2000. I believe the department's response, both to the committee and to me, was that it was deemed that this was going to be too expensive and we were not going to get the best bang for our buck in this area. They had determined they could get better mileage from other venues and better mileage from attending other events in other capacities, given their limited means and budget.

They also explained to me that they had looked carefully at Expo, costed out what they figured it would take to attend, and deemed it was not cost-effective. On one hand, I am disappointed that we did not have a presence at Expo, but I am glad to hear that they actually take the time to weigh out some of these things and do cost benefit analysis. I think that is something that is often lacking in other departments in other areas. I am wondering if the Minister can talk a little bit about some of the other things he is proposing to do internationally in lack of attendance at Expo to try to stimulate tourism.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Taking part at Expo was going to be incredibly expensive for us. A minimum contribution to be a partner with the federal government is $250,000. Prices are really inflated during these events, so even renting a large room, along with the supportive services that come with it for a period of time, would be $50,000 a day. This is just out of our league. In fact, very few provinces and none of the territories have pavilions there either. Things tend to get really exorbitant.

Expo '86, for example, cost this government $15 million. The Expo in Spain cost $4 million. We do not have that kind of money anymore. Even though we really want to promote tourism, is that the best use of our money?

I might add, Mr. Chairman, that myself and the deputy minister, Bob McLeod, are going to Antwerp in July, where I am making a speech at a diamond conference and we are going to take the opportunity to go over to Expo, meet with the commissioner and see if there is a way of us participating without having to pay these high costs. It may be possible that we can do something.

The Expo event goes on until November, so we have not lost the whole opportunity if we want to take part. Generally speaking, there are more cost effective ways for us to use our limited money than the cost of this event. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Earlier, I questioned the Minister about the oil and gas industry and the kinds of spin-off benefits that might be available for Northerners, northern businesses, and for northern manufacturers. We have heard the Minister comment that not every community in the Northwest Territories is going to have a pipeline running through it so it is important to look to other things like tourism to stimulate some of the smaller economies, some of the economies that are not close to the potential pipeline development.

I would like to suggest that we look to all communities of the Northwest Territories for possible development, possible spin-off business and jobs that could be created in the oil and gas industry. I think there are certainly manufacturing opportunities to be had. I suppose it probably benefits the larger communities like Yellowknife and especially Hay River. I think that these are some of the things that we need to look at and not just consider. That unless you are within the immediate proximity of a pipeline, you are not going to receive any benefit. So I really think it is important that we look at some of the opportunities that might come out of this, take a proactive approach, and do something early.

In the diamond industry, I think the secondary value-added cutting and polishing, now we are seeing a grading facility. I think, in hindsight, we almost missed the boat on that and give the department credit. They did play catch up and they did get in on the ground floor, but I think it was close and I would like to make sure that the department is paying attention in oil and gas, because I think we are going to have one big shot at this thing. I hope we do not miss it. I think there will be a flurry of activity and if we are not up to speed it will be easy for companies doing the work in the Territories to say listen, you simply do not have the businesses that can participate. You do not have the people to do the work. We have got to go south. We need this development to go ahead. As they say, things are going to move at the speed of business, so I think that it is important that the department be ready to help Northerners and northern businesses in all areas of the Territories take advantage of what is sure to be a boom.

In that area, we have seen socio-economic agreements with diamond companies. I would like to ask the Minister if we will have the same kinds of agreements in place with pipeline companies to ensure that a certain percentage is a percentage of Northerners, a certain percentage of aboriginals are hired and also that northern businesses are utilized to the fullest extent possible. Will we be in a position to negotiate and ensure that we look after Northerners' interests first?

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The oil and gas business is a little more complex and more difficult to identify who we would have the arrangements with. But certainly we intend to support, first of all, the aboriginal leaders and their request to have an equity position in a pipeline. So that kind of arrangement will certainly result in them owning some of it and, hopefully, them hiring their own people from the community. So that would help. So we support that.

Second is, as I mentioned earlier today with regard to support services, whether it is oil and gas well services, providing materials, equipment, so on. We support that and that should mean northern jobs as well.

And then the third area, to provide jobs in the actual construction of pipelines, exploration for gas and oil and so on. Then our intention is to, where we can, enter into socio-economic agreements, for example, with a pipeline company and work closely with both DIAND and the National Energy Board to make sure that the socio-economic agreements have some teeth to them. I appreciate the Member's suggestions. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to say that I do recognize that it is slightly more complicated with the oil and gas industry than it has been in the diamond industry. We may not be able to arrive at the same kind of formal socio-economic agreements that we have seen in the diamond industry. But I hope that the Minister and the Premier will continue to lobby the pipeline companies, lobby the oil and gas companies and say, listen if you want to make this thing go ahead and you want to make this thing go ahead quickly, it is going to require partnership with Northerners.

It is going to require doing everything in your power to use northern labour, northern manufacturers, northern businesses and if we cannot get formal socio-economic agreements...I hope it is made at least clear to them that things will go a lot more smoothly if they include us in the process.

The last thing I would like to ask the Minister about is the Non-Renewable Resource Strategy that his department has spent a lot of time on and has been consulting, I think quite heavily, with the federal government, with Martin and with the Minister of DIAND.

We saw the Minister sort of roll this out for the first time at the intergovernmental forum in Hay River and I think he felt it was key to get the feedback and the participation of all the aboriginal groups in the strategy so that there was some buy-in and there was ownership. I thought that was a fundamental and key first step.

But I would like to ask the Minister, what kind of response he has been getting, not so much from the federal government at this point, but from some of the other aboriginal groups and aboriginal leaders with regards to the Non-Renewable Resource Strategy?

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The two co-chairs for the Economic Devolvement Strategy report that, I think, was given out to the chair of GED yesterday, are both aboriginal leaders, Richard Nerysoo, and Darrell Bealieau. We have other aboriginal people who are involved in the preparation of that strategy. Richard Nerysoo, in particular, accompanied some of our people to Ottawa, took part in a presentation, and spoke on behalf of all aboriginal people very strongly in support of it.

I have not received as much feedback as I, ideally, had hoped for from chiefs and other leaders, but I think given the day to day business that they are involved in and their busy schedules, I am not surprised. But no one has said the strategy is wrong. Absolutely no one has said that. Any comments I have heard have been supportive, even though some people may want a little bit more of this or that in it. It has been good support. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. I have next on my list Mr. Miltenberger, however in fairness everybody, as he has spoken yesterday already, I will recognize Mr. Krutko.