Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have waited to respond to some of the issues that have been raised until I thought that all Members had concluded and before we go into the clause by clause. I guess I would have to say Minister Handley accused me of being a pessimist. After you have heard the comments around the table tonight, I would say I was an optimist if I am coming forward with this legislation right now.

However, what I would like to do first of all is just respond to the concern that Mr. Handley first raised, which was the issue of the process that is underway right now and why I would be moving forward with this. If you look back into Hansard, March 25, 1993, you find the Minister for Renewable Resources talking about a comprehensive review of the Wildlife Act of the Northwest Territories, that at that point had been underway for some time.

If you move on through Hansard to November of 1993, there has been a change in the Ministers. Now, the Minister is the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi. At that time, in responding to a question about the time he was going to take to revise the Wildlife Act, Minister Kakfwi said, "This has been something that has been worked on for at least the last six years that I have been around."

So in 1993, the comprehensive review had been underway for six years. Why have I chosen to move ahead with one little aspect of it? I think that, Mr. Chairman, answers the question, is that this comprehensive review has been underway in various forms, various manners for that long. For ten years that I have been a Member, I have seen the process undertaken. I think that after ten years, in another eight years, Minister Handley has not been a Member yet for quite two, but perhaps when he reaches ten years, he will not be quite as optimistic about what government consultations will be concluded in the next two years either. Given the experience with what I have seen, I have very little confidence that he will be anywhere near as confident then as he is now.

As Minister Ootes pointed out, part of what we have to try to do here is have all stakeholders reach consensus and that is what has caused us to take so long. The first go-round when Minister Kakfwi was talking about it having been six years, that was -- at that point, the Inuvialuit Final Agreement was eight years old. It was eight years after that final agreement before the government was even looking at doing something on it. It took six years of consultation to try and get somewhere on it.

Talking about looking at how things were being done, there never really was a consensus reached on it. What the government finally did was they took the wording on wildlife from the final agreement and just brought it into the Wildlife Act. There was never any consensus reached by all the stakeholders about how to address it in a comprehensive way.

My concern is that we are going to wind up with that same sort of situation here. I think that, as Minister Ootes says, we have to try and reach that consensus. It is very important. We have a responsibility that you, Mr. Chairman, have pointed out, to consult and to respect what has been negotiated in agreements with aboriginal governments to make sure that sort of process is followed through. We do have to make sure that there is a sincere attempt to reach consensus. We cannot be rushed.

I do not think we can say with any sense of certainty that it is going to happen in the next two years. If the time is not right, then it will take longer than two years. I think we have to respect that is what is going to have to happen.

I think part of the problem has been -- probably the biggest problem has been because there is, I believe, a very emotional, visceral reaction to anything that has to do with wildlife among many northern residents. I have come to understand that better through this whole process.

I have obviously been unsuccessful at convincing a number of people that all we are talking about here is non-aboriginal people's privileges. This government has a legal responsibility to ensure that the boards that you talked about, Mr. Chairman, are respected in their views when it comes to hunting rights in the Northwest Territories.

We are talking about only the animal populations that are left over after the rights of those who have the right to hunt are protected because those of us who are non-aboriginal do not have that right.

It is something that if there is a situation where there would be any interference with the number of people to be out there hunting, or if there would be any interference with aboriginal people's ability to hunt, then the treaty and legal rights would have to be respected and that could cut into the privileges of non-aboriginal people. That might mean that they do not get to hunt anymore. That is really what it might mean.

I think clearly Minister Antoine talked about how people perceived this in his region and talked about, I think he said wide-ranging ramifications over wildlife and treaty issues. Again, that obviously indicates that people have not been convinced that we are talking about is a small number of animals that have to be divided up among those in the Territories who have a privilege to hunt. If it ever gets to the point where those who hunt with a privilege start to interfere with those who hunt by right, then those who hunt with a privilege will lose that privilege.

I guess that is where I maybe failed in this bill. Part of that comes back to again, it is something that you brought up, Mr. Chairman, was consultation. I agree that it is absolutely imperative that there be consultation on changes in wildlife legislation. I think that is set out in all of the agreements that have been set.

As Mr. Roland pointed out, the legal advice that I had and that his committee also received, that responsibility falls on the government. An individual Member does not have the resources to undertake the sort of consultation that needs to be done.

For that reason, I welcome the amendment that Mr. Roland has proposed. A coming-into-force date I think would allow that sort of thing to happen. It is obviously an issue we are going to have to deal with here in terms of private Member's bills because given the number of agreements we have in the Territories, what is the process for consultation? Private Members cannot be expected to undertake the consultation that is required and yet we should not be limited from being able to bring forward proposals for legislation. Every Legislature in the Commonwealth allows private Member's bills to come forward and be considered.

So what happens here is that we have run into a bit of a problem with our process because private Members do not have the resources to undertake the sort of consultation that is now envisioned in a lot of these agreements.

I think maybe because there has been a failure for people to recognize the difference between rights and privileges of some people, it is going to be difficult to move this one along as quickly as I think it should be. As I said, I have been elected for ten years. I first asked the Minister of Renewable Resources about this issue I think nine and a half years ago and was assured that the comprehensive review was underway and I would see the results before the next election.

Well, two elections have come and gone since then. I am afraid that there is going to be a third election come and go before we get anywhere on this thing. That is why I thought that given the legal advice that I had, Mr. Chairman, that said that this change would impact only on non-aboriginal people and not on aboriginal people's rights, I felt it was something that could be severed from the rest of the consultation process and move on.

I am prepared to accept and support Mr. Roland's amendments, both of them, as a compromise to see if we move this along. I guess all I can say, Mr. Chairman, is that I hope Members will give it some consideration.

One last thing I should say has to do with a comment made by Mr. Lafferty. There are perhaps some resident sport hunters who might be categorized as having a lot of money and therefore able to purchase meat without needing to hunt it, but I could certainly take Members from this House around my constituency and introduce you to people who depend on being able to hunt for food and who depend on country foods quite a bit in order to ensure that they have a healthy amount of food.

I think it is worth remembering too that our food basket rates and income support were set with the understanding that people would be able to supplement that food with country food. There are a number of people who are disqualified from being able to do that with our current regulations.

With that, Mr. Chairman, I thank you.