Emergency services, not previously authorized, $153,500.

Total department, not previously authorized, $34,500.

Public Works and Services, operations expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized, $485,000. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the area of $325,000 to provide funding for forced growth expenditures resulting from significant increases to the cost of heating fuel and power in the Northwest Territories, I can understand the power situation because of the rate rider that was put on and has impacted government as well as the residents of the Northwest Territories. However, I go back to the line of questioning I had yesterday in this supp about the high cost of heating fuel. By their own information provided by the Minister, it shows that in fact, from January to September, there were no price changes in all the communities that were supplied by the POL, as we call it, division of Public Works and Services.

In fact, the communities that are private delivery of home heating oil, a lot of those communities actually had a drop in the same numbers. There were some communities that stayed relatively the same, a few communities went up, other communities dropped. Again, and from the comments made by the Minister and his staff yesterday, in fact, the dollars here are expended. We are going to run short. We need this money but by his own information, it just does not jibe. Does he have new information as to the cost of heating fuel that is driving these expenditures and the request for more money for fuel? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, the rack price is what the petroleum products division pays in Edmonton. They pay that based on the time it is loaded. While the rack price is fairly fixed, the petroleum products division is still dealing with the need to transport the fuel. One of the main cost increases is on the transportation.

In this year, we have seen a three cents a litre increase over the previous year in the price of transportation of fuel. This varies, of course, from community to community. There is a range in here that we are talking about. There has been an increase in the cost of transportation that makes up the biggest piece of the increase that communities and regions have experienced. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, I understand the communities serviced by petroleum products division, a contract is let out that includes transportation for a three-year period, I believe. Has there been a recent change in that contract?

I can understand those communities serviced by road but unless the information we were given, which showed the prices per community of communities serviced by POL and those that are on private, like Yellowknife, Inuvik, Aklavik, Norman Wells, those are rack price. You would see a fluctuation as the price goes up and down, as the market goes up and down correspondingly.

I still do not, unless the Minister has some numbers that we have not been able to see for this increase -- again, he is going forward from this point on and saying over the next number of months we will not meet our requirements when it comes to departments and providing for heat for different structures that the Government of the Northwest Territories has in its control.

Does the Minister have other information that committee members do not have as to the actual price? The information provided to us regarding our concerns in this area are a number of months old but they do not show such a dramatic increase. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I made reference to the fuel transportation increase that petroleum products division faces now. We have other information that was provided to the committee with regard to leases that come due at various times, so I will let Mr. Voytilla explain the issues around leasing. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Voytilla.

Thank you, Mr. Voytilla. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That response makes a little bit of sense in what we are looking at here, but when I go through this document, almost every department that has an increase that reflects Power Corporation increase costs across the board and some heating costs. It is the same in every department.

We are going to look at Health and Social Services next, $378,000, when we get through with this section and the wording is identical there. It would have saved us a lot of time if there was a different scenario for each department, that that be included. It would save us a lot of time in that sense. To me, across the board, it seems like the government just wants to address a higher cost that has been looked and is about to come out.

I understand the lease situation. If they were a number of years old, then they would be impacted by some of that. So I thank Mr. Voytilla for that information and would suggest that maybe some better wording be put in these cases and maybe be prepared for other departments when this particular wording occurs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, I will say we appreciate the advice. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We seem to be focussing a lot of emphasis on the increased cost of heating, fuel and power. When are we going to see a decrease with regard to the energy costs in the North? Right now, a barrel of oil was almost $29 and it is down to about $20 a barrel. The cost of fuel coming to Alberta is about 51 cents a litre for gas. At what point are we going to see a reflection in the statements? When we talk about the world price of crude or whatever we calculate with regard to how we assess what the price is going to be at the pumps, is that going to be reflected in here? Is there a major decrease in the cost of fuel? If that is the case, the cost of energy and the cost of heating fuel should be coming down. Where do we build in this scenario? The increased costs has fluctuated to a point where we had a major spike and all of a sudden, it is on its way back down. Where in this scenario do you see that turnaround, or see where this picture will be changed, knowing that it does to reflect the reality today of the price of crude being at $20 a barrel?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, I hope the price of fuel continues to go down. It has gone down recently in Yellowknife. I hope it will go down in other communities as the price of crude goes down.

When will we see the changes? It will vary from one community to another depending on when the purchases are made for the fuel for that community. It will depend on whether their fuel is being purchased through the PPD, if that was the case. They buy their fuel, in most cases, once a year and it is whatever they would have paid for it. So it would probably be quite a long time there.

In other situations, we may see it sooner depending on the price people have to pay for the bulk fuel. Of course, with the hydro, it depends on when hydro buys their fuel. That is reflected in their cost of running their operations. It is going to vary. It is going to take awhile but like the Member, I am optimistic that prices will continue to go down. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Knowing that there was going to be an increase from the fuel suppliers, and one of them is the Government of the Northwest Territories through POL, we in this House knew there was going to be a certain percent increase with regard to the cost of fuel that is sold in a lot of communities where we purchase fuel. So why at that time was that not built into the business plans of the different departments, knowing that was a set price made by this government? Do you not talk between departments and the POL to say exactly what the price of oil or price of gas is going to be next week or next month? It is a department of this government, yet very poor planning is done where you have to come through this process of asking for supplementary appropriation. That should have been built into the expenditures of the department knowing that was the case. Why was that not done?