Ms. Lee.

Mr. Chairman, may I ask the Minister to be more specific about what liaising means? I think that it is no secret that everybody has been harping about housing shortages, not all over the Territories, but in particular for me for the city of Yellowknife. It has been an ongoing thing, this is not a new thing. The Minister had indicated in some of his answers in the House that he had meetings with city officials and the Municipal and Community Affairs officials and so on and so forth. So, what exactly is he trying to accomplish, if anything, for dealing with the lack of affordable lots in Yellowknife? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For the record, last June the Minister of Finance, the Member for Great Slave and myself, including the deputy minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, attended a meeting at city hall to discuss in the preliminary stage some of the processes that we can develop to procure affordable lots in the city. There were a number of concepts raised.

Since then, I must admit that I have not been able to speak to anyone except the mayor very briefly last week, but I understand from our own internal discussions our officials have met with some developers in the city and I know from the meeting last February they were basically asked not to enter into the rental market and also not to infringe on market developments.

Now we understand that there is a greater demand and an emerging demand, so we are prepared to look at what role we can play as a corporation in home-ownership development in the city of Yellowknife and land is always a key question in our deliberations. So, we are prepared to work with Municipal and Community Affairs to see if they will take the lead with those vested interest groups so we can come to some conclusion here. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Minister Allen. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am not even clear about exactly what the NWT Housing Corporation's mandate is in providing or playing any role in providing affordable lots in places like Yellowknife. Does the Minister have a mandate to do that or is that his responsibility to do that even? Maybe I should ask that question first.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Minister Allen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do not see the land issue as being in the NWT Housing Corporation's mandate other than we can purchase land for home development, providing it is affordable. That is why we are trying to guide the discussion through Municipal and Community Affairs. We work in collaboration with that department to identify methods by which we could put housing into the city for our clients. I reference a small portion of our mandate which states that the NWT Housing Corporation recognizes its role in providing affordable social rental housing and home-ownership options while assisting with the development of private housing markets. So that, Mr. Chairman, exemplifies what our mandate is and the direction that we need to go. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Allen. Ms. Lee.

Thank you. I do not know what that is he just read about the goal. Is that the goal of the NWT Housing Corporation? May I ask what he just read? Where is that from?

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Minister Allen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to verify, that comes from our mandate and it is also part of our overview in terms of our housing strategies that we continue to elaborate on to assist those who are in need. That extends into our historical home-ownership programs. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Allen. Ms. Lee.

You see, it is confusing because I guess I have heard the Minister say earlier that the NWT Housing Corporation does not want to interfere with the free market, but what he just said in terms of the overall mandate of the NWT Housing Corporation is very much similar to the division of the department as stated in the main estimates on page 8-5. It says here that:

The NWT Housing Corporation is committed to working in partnership with communities and aboriginal groups to assist them to become responsible for their own choices in housing. By working together, all community residents are provided with opportunities for homes that support a healthy, secure, independent and dignified lifestyle.

I guess that is broad enough that I would say that the NWT Housing Corporation has a mandate to the people of Yellowknife as it has for everyone. I think the mission says here that "The NWT Housing Corporation in partnership with all Northwest Territories residents and community organizations is responsible for the provision of adequate, suitable and affordable housing."

I do not mean to read this whole book or anything like that, but I am still not clear exactly how the NWT Housing Corporation sees its role in terms of addressing this crucial need in Yellowknife. The mission I just read shows a broad mandate. I would think that you could argue he is responsible for housing availability, affordable housing in Yellowknife. I am not talking about social housing, I am talking about, for now, affordable housing and affordable housing requires affordable lots. A $300,000 house is not an affordable house, I would argue.

I guess, this contradiction is shown in the budget address where, under housing initiatives on page 14, the first paragraph reads really well. The government recognizes here that there is a growing concern with the lack of affordable supply of private rental accommodation and housing and that there is need for housing for mine workers, oil and gas workers, government workers and employees of new aboriginal governments and businesses all need affordable housing. So, it says here the shortage affects the Northwest Territories' potential for economic development and it is an issue for retention and recruitment. That is a really laudable and agreeable statement.

Then the NWT Housing Corporation moves in to say that the Government of the Northwest Territories intends to respond to this by doing things, but only in non-tax-based communities. This is why I am confused because I would say that the mandate requires that the NWT Housing Corporation has to be doing something in Yellowknife. The Minister has indicated parity and equality and equity and everything, yet it says right here in black and white that he is not doing anything for tax-based communities. Could he explain that, please?

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Minister Allen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I hope I can extrapolate from the long preamble to the question and hopefully recollect some important points, but the emphasis here, Mr. Chairman, is that we have been told by private developers that we should not infringe in the marketplace. What we did say, we did commit that we were prepared to discuss in the context of affordable housing that we would enter into some informal agreements.

If the Member is curious to know what I mean, I am trying to emphasize that under our social housing development programs that we can then consider and we will consider that we can now introduce EDAP for those who are at the top end of our public housing list and may have to move to the next level. That is where I think we are starting to move towards in the city of Yellowknife.

In the context of we need to develop parity in the Northwest Territories and look at some of those impacts that are causing the great concern in the city of Yellowknife, again, in recognition of the fact that migration is occurring from the smaller communities into the larger centre, we need to look at the broader client base and not just those who are working in the oil and gas and the diamond industries and the spin off industries. Yes, we understand and we are trying to address all the questions and not just one singular one that affects affordable housing in the city. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Allen. The Chair recognizes Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my question to the Minister is in regard to the NWT Housing Corporation and its mandate and outlook on where it could go as a partner responsible for the housing needs and requirements of the people in the Northwest Territories. I think one thing that we do not hear much about, but I think it does have the perspective of having a real economic value to the Northwest Territories, is the forest industry and the potential that it has by way of log homes and even wood products and materials produced in the Northwest Territories. Right now, a large portion of the lumber industry that does take place is that raw logs are being exported to British Columbia, Alberta and elsewhere, but there is no real spin off in regard to developing a market to produce wood door frames and whatnot. A lot of that material is imported and is built here and then is stamped with manufactured in the Northwest Territories. Realistically, the wood product was not produced in the Northwest Territories.

I think as a government we have to seriously look at the timber potential we have in the Northwest Territories, especially in the Mackenzie Delta where a lot of people do not realize that a lot of the structures and infrastructure that has been built in places like Inuvik and Aklavik and almost all of the government centres back in the 20's and 30's were built from logs and whatnot from the Inuvik region. Just because you are above the Arctic Circle does not mean we do not grow trees up there also.

I think it is important that in the communities I represent, especially in Fort McPherson, they have been working on a pilot project with the NWT Housing Corporation. We have worked on developing log homes in the different communities and I think it has proven itself. I think as a department, if anything, I see a real economic opportunity here for not only the NWT Housing Corporation, but for the residents of the Northwest Territories who will generate employment, an opportunity to make log products and build developing log packages in the Northwest Territories where you can have logs packaged in such a way that you can actually have these things produced at a market where you do not have to spend $200,000 or $300,000 to build a home in a lot of these communities. You can do it for a cheaper cost because of the access to the resource that is there.

So, I would like to ask the Minister, is there anything in their eyes of expanding this program to look at the log home projects or to look at people who may be single individuals or elders who may want a log home instead of having a home where you have running water and the plumbing, the whole works? If you can look at something that people just feel comfortable with, having a roof over their heads, having a feeling that they had an input in building it and some pride in those homes and which people used to have in their own homes, you do not see much of that anymore.

I think the whole idea of stimulating our economy is important, so I would like to ask the Minister, is that one area the department can expand on and start looking at allocating resources and start developing more of these type of packages instead of importing these home products from the south?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Allen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am certainly pleased to hear the question because it is quite ironic that we have again supported the Fort Smith Metis Local to cut some dimensional lumber for the NWT Housing Corporation. We funded the project and we will continue to investigate other opportunities as they come up. There is a lot of potential in the Northwest Territories, we believe. We know there is great demand for blocking. There is great demand for rough lumber. I think the forest sector of our economy can support that. We can also develop a lot of northern-based building supplies and two years ago the president and I went into a small community south of the border and we saw where they used a lot of the local product too, for instance, as milling material for hard woods. I was very impressed with the very reduced cost. It requires again further discussion with another member of the department to collaborate on the methodologies we can use to develop that small sector that can be self-supporting.

We certainly are more than prepared under our business development section to look at those real possibilities and support it both economically and from a regional perspective. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Minister Allen. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Allen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to confirm that we already have attached some resources to the concept of log home building. We do have two staff members from the Beaufort-Delta district office who have been participating in a project of that nature for the past two years. We continue to support that. Again, we do have our number of home-ownership programs that can support those local initiatives, it is just a matter of ensuring that they are within the mandate of the corporation and within our audit requirements.

Those are some of the areas we do want to look at in the context of our business development section. Again, we see that as a real possibility. It gives ownership to the community, to the individuals and also it will help the local development corporations find other ways of promoting home-ownership. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.