Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Handley.

Yes, Mr. Chairman. The Department of Education, Culture and Employment is making sure that all students are aware of the interest relief information. That information is now available on the student financial assistance Web site. It's in the student guide. It's with their notice to begin repayment. When they receive their first letter, their demand letter, before the files are sent to collections, they are notified again of it. They are notified as well when they are in default status. I think the departments, both Education and FMBS, are doing everything they can to make students are aware of this program. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. General comments. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have a brief question. We will be dealing with another bill later called Forgiveness of Debts Act. We are right now dealing with legislation that would enable the government to write off some debts that arise out of student loans. For the record, could I get the Minister or Mr. Voytilla to explain what the difference is between the debts the government writes off and the debts that are forgiven? Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, I will let Mr. Voytilla explain the difference between those two.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Voytilla.

Thank you, Mr. Voytilla. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank Mr. Voytilla for elaborating on that end and answering to what I was actually going to ask next, which is, even though these debts will be written off, that collections will still be pursued because I appreciate that all these debts that are being written off arise out of student loans and there are probably a number of legitimate cases where these people who had got loans from the government to pursue their educational goals were not able to pay that up and the government has deemed them almost uncollectible. At the same time, I know that there are hundreds of...Every year there are lots of people who get student loans and most of them are paying off their debts, so we want to make sure that everybody's treated equally and all those people who have the advantage of getting a student loan to go to school should be asked to pay back. I don't have any question on that. I just wanted to put that additional information on the record so that the public can be aware of the purpose of writing off debts of the government. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. No question there. Are there further general comments? Clause by clause. Bill 19, Write-Off of Debts Act, 2003-2004.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question is around the area of bankruptcy. The legislation that we have that was followed in the Northwest Territories when someone files bankruptcy is very outdated compared to other jurisdictions such as Alberta. What we're seeing is there seems to be a trend that a lot of these people that have these outstanding debts have gone to Alberta and declared bankruptcy because they can get a better deal by filing for bankruptcy in Alberta than they would in the Northwest Territories.

I've raised this question many times in the House, in the previous 13th Assembly and now here again. I've talked to federal people and people who've been involved in the bankruptcy legislation and helping people with bankruptcy. They have a real problem when they come to the Northwest Territories to understand what's offered through the bankruptcy exemptions. Yet right next door in Alberta it seems like it's a pretty straightforward, stream-lined process.

I'd like to ask the Minister, what is this government doing to hopefully not start to see a trend where everyone that has a debt with this government is now going to go to Alberta to declare bankruptcy because they can get more of that debt written off and be able to have more security by way of holding household items? Have you looked at this and are you talking to our federal counterparts about amending our bankruptcy legislation so we do bring it in line with other jurisdictions such as Alberta?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Handley.

Mr. Chairman, it's a good point and it's one I'll have to take up with the Minister of Justice and he, I expect, would want to work with the federal government on this as well. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Handley. Mr. Krutko.

Does the Minister have any idea when this is going to happen and are we going to see it in the life of this government, or is this something that we can put forth by way of a recommendation to the new government coming in? We are at the 11th hour here and I don't realistically believe that we've been...I believe that this was one of the things we had on our wish list when we got elected to this government to look at something like that and today nothing is happening.

I'd just like to ask the Minister, how soon can you get back to us on this? Are we going to see any action on this or is this something that we have to pass on to the next government?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Handley.

Mr. Chairman, I will speak with the Minister of Justice today, if we have time, or in the morning. This is really an issue that will have to be dealt with through our Minister of Justice. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Handley. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Another area that I have concerns about in going through this process is that there are people being able to work out these negotiated settlements to the tune of $5,000 to forgive a debt of some $200,000, and I think that if that's the avenue that's going to be taken are we consistent? Did we offer that to other clients that we have out there who may have a similar predicament? They have a debt with the government and they can simply make a negotiated offer for pennies on the dollar and basically walk away from this. Yet we're going after students with student loans and saying sorry, we're going to continue to hound you for the rest of your days to recoup this student loan. Yet we're writing off hundreds of thousands of dollars to certain clients by simply negotiating a negotiated settlement with a minimum amount. I think that if we're going to be fair, let's be fair across the board to everyone, including students with student loans.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Handley.

Mr. Chairman, we always attempt to get every penny that's owed to us. Every bad debt is a little bit different. They're all unique in their own way. Certainly we use the same criteria in arriving at compromised settlements with anyone who has debts with us. We look at what the possibilities are of getting some future recoveries from the individual. What's the cost of the legal action we might take in order to get that money back? Also, the value of any security we may have against the debt. Is it worth anything? We use the same criteria, but I have to say, every one of these settlements deals with a little bit different case. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Handley. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Handley.

Mr. Chairman, our policy is the same. We want to collect the money that we can. We want to do it in the same way, using the same criteria I just mentioned a few minutes ago, in each of the cases. So it's possible for anyone to attempt to reach a settlement and we would have to use our judgment whether or not that was a fair arrangement to get into whether there really is no way of being able to collect. It wouldn't matter if it was a student loan or housing arrears. The Housing Corporation has their own policy on collection of arrears.

I think in any kind of situation we first of all want to collect the money. Second is that we want to ensure that if we're getting into a settlement, that there really isn't any hope of getting any more money out of it and so on. In terms of compassionate reasons, because someone is elderly and possibly sick, those, I suppose, also come into play, but again that comes to part of whether or not we really feel there's any chance of recovering any more of the money owed to us. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Handley. Mr. Krutko.

Well, that's exactly my point. In order to stay within public housing and in arrears you have to make the attempt to pay or you get booted out. Yet we know of hundreds of thousands of dollars that's been basically spent and never repaid. Also we have major outstanding debts with different agencies of this government; the Power Corporation, the Housing Corporation. What attempts are we making for them to pay down their debt? Yet we're getting elderly people in social housing in the Northwest Territories to have to pay off their arrears. When is the government going to get those people who owe us some arrears too, like the Power Corporation and Housing Corporation, to pay down some of our debt? That's where it's coming from is those two organizations. If we're going to go after the elderly lady with cancer, why couldn't we go after those corporations that continue to spend and never pay back their debt?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We want to be fair to everybody. We want to be fair to the people who are paying their debts, even though it may be a bit of a hardship on them. We want to be fair to people who are unable to pay their debts. There are limits and there are rules in terms of which ones come here and which ones the administrator of whatever the program is has the authority to make the settlement. I'm sure there are settlements being made by administration in the Housing Corporation and other places every day that we never see.

The main objective here, though, has to be to get the money, but also be fair to everybody. I think often people don't realize that this avenue is open to them and if there's an area where we can make some improvement in the future in another government is probably in making sure that people are aware of the fact that they're expected to pay back the money. If they can't then we don't just send a collection agent in. There are ways of working with them. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Handley. The chair will recognize Mr. McLeod.

Mr. Chairman, I move we report progress.

The motion on the floor is non-debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

The chair will rise and report progress.