That's probably one wish he doesn't want to keep. To the motion. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I, too, will be voting in support of this motion. Like many, it's been a number of years that I've had the opportunity to work with David. I thought, when I first came in, that I would turn this government on its ear and make some drastic changes and became somewhat disappointed as I slowly figured out the system doesn't move quite as fast as one would wish from time to time. I would be disgruntled and sit back and wonder what we are doing here. He would stop in with a few words to say: "hold the course", "you are doing the right thing for your constituents."

There were times when I sure wished to be the fly on the wall when he's heard of Members who wanted to make a certain motion or the government would come out with a bill. I'm sure there were some antics and some words that were best left behind the doors as his advice might have been a little more stern than some of us would let on. But he has helped many of us as we walked through the doors of this Assembly. I, too, when I walked through here, was very green to territorial politics. I was open minded about what would happen here, but as for the actual rules, Robert's Rules and so on, of different meetings and how we conduct ourselves, Mr. Hamilton's quiet advice would help steer the meeting and bring to a conclusion what we thought was total madness at times.

Many times I've had to explain to people, they'd ask about this Assembly and they'd ask, who was that man that sits at the table in front of the Speaker? As I've come to learn, now I say to my constituents who ask me, that is the man who steers the government direction. Although we think we're the power of this Assembly, I've come to learn that the Clerk position and Mr. Hamilton in particular has an awful lot of authority that many of us thought we wielded. He's taught us that he is one that can make things flow or he can plug things up as he saw the rules and explained them.

He has helped us and helped the North in more ways than many people can say. I guess, as we look at things and the season of change that would come upon us, and we know that the snow is once again, as on an annual basis, coming around, so too would another time of elections and new Members coming through the door. Members who've been around would leave and take on another life. Mr. Hamilton will, I'm sure, be paying much attention as he's seen this territory grow from its infancy, from when Members were elected, to a certain degree, to where we're a full governing body making rules for our people and the Territories.

There are times when he would go to a Member who would stand on their own, as I have, in this Assembly from time to time and felt that the difference we make here may be very minimal and wonder if it is time to look at greener pastures. Again, that quiet voice would sit down in his office, he would tell you that you are doing what's best for your constituents and don't be afraid to stand and take the heat if it is that situation. Or maybe it's time to sit down and be quiet about something and let the will of the House rule the day.

So it has been my extreme pleasure, and I'm sure as he's seen the picture in the paper, when I was first elected, along with many of the others. I'm not sure where they got that picture from. I know that many comments made by my colleagues about the, who is this guy from Inuvik? Look at that guy. Is he a terrorist?

---Laughter

I wasn't sure, but I'm sure Mr. Hamilton, as he saw many of us come in here, knew that he would at times have his hands full with Members coming in here and what we would do. He would steer us gently in a way that was best fitting for us as Members and for our constituents. I said I came in here as a very green Member to territorial politics. I guess I can say somewhat that I am seasoned now. I have gone from my dull grays to my colourful purples and grapes, as one of my colleagues would say. Along with that, I have grown as a member of the Legislative Assembly and hopefully, with the advice and calming influence of Mr. Hamilton, be able to serve my constituents in the future remembering his guidance. There are times when the business of this Assembly is first and foremost, but there are times when his ability to talk to Members aside from the politics of the day and talk to you on a personal note and let you know you are doing a good job. So I'll miss you.

---Applause

To the motion. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, stand today to speak in support of the motion. I appreciate the fact that Mr. Hamilton announced his retirement earlier and I think part of it was so that we would all get used to and prepared for a life without him. I think that we all know that it's just not going to be the same.

With his announcement of retirement and some of the announcements in the House and outside of the House of some of the long-serving Members, yourself, Mr. Speaker and Minister Antoine, Minister Kakfwi and Minister Ootes leaving, it really feels like this is definitely the end of an era and we are starting anew. I think I am one of the younger ones here, contrary to some other Member's statement. I really am feeling like it's not time for me to have to grow up more and be able to be more self-sufficient.

Mr. Speaker, it really seems to me like I have known Mr. Hamilton forever and I can't remember the first time I met him, but Minister Antoine's statement about him being appointed as Clerk in 1983 reminded me that I had a brief presence in the old Assembly, the old Yellowknife Inn, where they had a youth assembly where they brought two youths from every riding in the country and I was one of the ones chosen in Yellowknife Centre. I remember making presentations, along with now Chief Jerry Paulette and Sabrina Dragon when we were 18-years-old pretending to be MLAs. That must have been when I first met Mr. Hamilton inside of this setting. But, of course, he's been a member of the community of Yellowknife for a long time. I know him through the United Church. I have a unique background that I have been an employee of the Legislative Assembly. I came here in 1989. I submitted a resume to Mr. Hamilton fresh out of university with my fancy degree in political science. I had a call from him not too long after that and started working as a research officer with Rick Bargery, who is now the deputy minister. The names sort of flow around here.

So I have had the honour of working as an employee here and then working in Ministers' offices and then going to school again and coming back as a Member. Mr. Speaker, I have to say that Mr. Hamilton truly is one of a kind. I don't think he's replaceable in this House or in the government. I know the senior management of the government relies on him a lot and in our city of Yellowknife and the entire community.

He is truly a very gifted person. He's about the only one who I know who absolutely knows everything, not just about what's going on in this chamber. We know what goes on in this Chamber is a small part of what goes on in the whole Legislative Assembly. But he also knows what's going on in the whole government. He actually knows what's going on before you know it. He knows what you are thinking even before you speak it.

---Laughter

He has a plan for you to go ahead with it or to stop the plan before you get into too much trouble. I know what Members here have already spoken about. Every time I go into his office, I can just feel the stories that must go on in that office. I have been one of the Members who have benefited from his advice. I have noticed two things about Mr. Hamilton. One is the success that he's had and his ability to have served in this House and serve the Members for 20 years, that is not a small thing. I don't know how anybody can do that. He should be very proud of having achieved that. Members who are in this House, we are very determined. We have strong beliefs. We come here with lots of issues and convictions that we want to fight on and it cannot be easy for him to give advice, but he has a gift of quick mind. Whenever I suffer from difficulty with making a decision, whether it's procedure or whether I should make this statement or that or should I go one way or the other, you could have suffered it for three hours or three days and you talk to him and he will know the answer in one instant.

Another gift he has that made him a success in this House is that no matter what advice he gives you, he always makes you feel like he's your friend. Even if he's changed your mind, you walk away thinking that you have your way or you are winning. He has that. Not too many people have that. Even if he changes your mind, he makes you feel like you've won anyway and you've made your point. I hope I am doing justice to recognizing the gifts that he has, which is his quick mind. That's not always easy to find. We second guess ourselves and about things we want to do and it's a tremendous help when you are struggling with your decision to just talk to Mr. Hamilton. It doesn't have to be very long. You just talk to him for a few minutes and he has an answer for you. Whether you take it or not, you go away with it feeling much better.

So I just want to recognize him for that. Also, I don't know how he has time for other things but he's been developing himself personally. He has lots of involvement outside of the community and I know he will do really well. As Mr. Bell has mentioned, I have travelled with him around the world, he is highly respected all across the country and all around the world by a lot of parliamentarians and clerks who know his work and who have had a chance to work with him. So I have had no doubt that he is going to have a full and illustrious career in his retirement in whatever way he chooses.

I don't want to say good-bye and I don't want to be sad about it, but I am really mindful of the fact that this is the beginning of a new era. We are going to have a totally different place and if it's any comfort to you, Mr. Hamilton, know that you've done a good job. You've gone through a lot of changes in this Assembly, guided the political and constitutional evolution through and that you are leaving us in good hands. Please feel free to come back and visit and all the best wishes to Kate and your entire family. Thank you.

There are no other people wanting to speak and as Speaker, I don't normally speak to motions nor do I get to vote on motions, except in a tie situation. The chair doesn't anticipate a tie vote here.

---Laughter

However, if I were allowed to say something, I would say...

---Laughter

...I would say that I support everything that has already been said around the table and add, if I were allowed to say, it's been a big part of my political life being a student of Mr. Hamilton right from November 8, 1988 when I was first sworn in and that from this position in the last four years, I have gained a lot of respect for the knowledge that this gentlemen has of the parliaments, not only here but nationally and internationally. I say that because I have attended international conferences and national conferences with Mr. Hamilton. He is very well respected in this country and in international circles as well. His presence will be missed here as our esteemed Clerk. I think what we are doing today here is giving us an opportunity of not saying goodbye, it is just saying farewell temporarily. Should the occasion arise, you are proposing to have a chair here so that this gentleman can come and be in our presence, so we can act wisely and speak wisely on behalf of our constituents.

The honourable Member for Nahendeh has the last opportunity to speak to this motion. The honourable Member for Nahendeh.

There being no further debate on the motion, the House is ready for the question

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Thank you.

In the chair's opinion, the motion was carried unanimously.

---Applause

Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. You have a motion. The motion is in order. To the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker I just want to make a very brief statement in support of the principle of this bill. I do believe that this is a project that has been in the works for a very long time. I know that the members of the Tlicho government and their people are anxious to get this bill in the House.

I will be supporting the second reading of the bill in support of having the bill in the public domain for the public input and consultation process. I just want to state that I support the principle of this bill and that I look forward to having discussions about this bill. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you Ms. Lee. To the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for Hay River North, Mr. Delorey.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I, as well, would like to speak to the principle of the bill. Mr. Speaker, I am glad to see the second reading of this bill come to the House.

I look forward to going home this weekend and having consultation on this bill with my constituents. I think that it is very important that the public know what is going on. I look forward to the debate coming up over this bill and as much public input as we can get into it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you Mr. Delorey. To the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for the Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I, too, stand here to indicate that I will be supporting this bill. It is the next step, Mr. Speaker, in what has really become a proud history legacy of northern Canadians and Canada as a whole that has seen land claim and self-government process events over time. In most of my life here in the Northwest Territories, Mr. Speaker, and some nine or ten years in the Yukon, I have lived through the evolution of the whole notion that aboriginal people deserve to have these things.

It really is a matter of restoring what they had and how they lived and went about making their own decisions before the arrival, of course, of European culture. The acceptance of land claims and self-government is really becoming part of the North's psyche. It is part of our environment, it is part of how we live, how we work with each other and, very much, Mr. Speaker, it is part of the way we are looking forward in planning for the future. We cannot do these things without factoring in the significance of land claims and self-government. That is why we are here as legislators; to see this through and to be the eyes and the ears and the hearts of our constituents and to lead and guide the laws and programs through to completion.

As my colleague, Mr. Delorey, said he looks forward to seeing this through and to the broadest and fullest possible inclusion as our process and our rules have it, that this is given the fullness of time and exposure to all people of the North to have a look at these laws. To see that they are indeed the right thing to do, see that they meet the expectations and merit the respect that we bring to them, Mr. Speaker. I want to say again that I stand in full support of this bill and look forward to the public discourse and the passage of it in due course. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you Mr. Braden. To the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Nitah.

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. To the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Mr. Speaker, it's a great honour today to speak on the Tlicho agreement. It has been some 20 years of negotiations to the tune of $28 million being expended on these negotiations, which the Tlicho people will have to pay back. I think as a people in the Northwest Territories who have seen the development of land claims, the political process in the Northwest Territories, it has been a long, drawn out process. For people to say they weren't aware of negotiations or not aware of what's in the Tlicho agreement, I find it totally unreasonable to realize that negotiations have been going on for this long and no one knows what's in it.

I've been involved in negotiations of the Dene/Metis claims negotiations process and then also the Gwich'in agreement and the Sahtu agreement. The most cumbersome group of people to negotiate with is the Government of the Northwest Territories. The most challenging issues that you have at the negotiating table are with the Government of the Northwest Territories negotiators. You have to negotiate with the federal government and the Government of the Northwest Territories and all the other people out there. I think for people to sit here and say that we need more time, we've had 20 years. We've spent almost $30 million on negotiating the Tlicho agreement.

The same thing applied to the Inuvialuit, the Gwich'in, the Sahtu and now with the Tlicho agreement. I've spend going on eight years in this House, always bringing the Gwich'in land claim agreement with me because there are a lot of elements of this agreement which haven't even been implemented, and it's over 10 years since the Gwich'in agreement was negotiated. A simple thing like amendments to the Wildlife Act; we've served four years and this has been one of our issues and it hasn't been dealt with. We have establishment of protected areas in this agreement such as territorial parks. It's almost 10 years since these parks were established. It has taken so long to implement our land claim agreement it's pathetic. Yet people say well, they're getting all these things. You get a land claim agreement, but it doesn't mean anything unless it gets legislative assent.

I think that's what the Tlicho agreement is asking for us to do here today. As legislators we have a responsibility to uphold our commitments to First Nations people that have taken the time to negotiate their agreement and also have taken the time to make that expenditure, and negotiations are a two-way street. The federal government has their positions, the GNWT has their positions, and the First Nations people have their positions. But at the end of it all, we have an agreement that basically has been signed by the Prime Minister of Canada, the Government of the Northwest Territories and the First Nations people.

It has been televised across the country. I would like to see this agreement given assent in this House during the sitting of this legislature. If people want to have a full debate, we can debate it on the floor of this House through Committee of the Whole and have it televised across the country so every community, every person in our community can see what the questions are, what the issues are, and as Members of this Legislature standing up to face your predictions and exactly what you stand for. If you have problems with an issue, let's do it on the floor of this House. With that, Mr. Speaker, I fully support the Tlicho agreement and I will encourage Members to also support the enactment of this agreement by bringing forward the legislation that's in front of us and passing it in the Chamber of this House as soon as possible.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. To the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the principle of the Tlicho land claims and self-government agreement is a good one. For years aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories and across Canada have been working to negotiate, along with their claims, self-government. Being that the principle is a good one, Mr. Speaker, is one thing, but our duty as legislators in this House I find myself in a bit of a predicament here because I know the wishes of this government to bring this to fruition, to bring it back in this House to third reading and pass it in the life of this government.

We know that dissolution happens on the 24th of October, and we're done. Mr. Speaker, we need to ask ourselves as legislators for all people in the Northwest Territories if the process we're going to step into, which has already been brought forward by our Cabinet, they've endorsed this and moved this and moved it ahead and taken all the considerations and concerns of Members, and in their wisdom thought that this is a step that needs to happen.

Mr. Speaker, there are questions we have to ask ourselves, and not only ourselves but on behalf of the residents we represent when it comes to this act. I believe that now that it is kicked into the public realm after first reading, and now after second reading it will go to committee and the committee will have to decide now as to what are the best steps for this bill. We've heard a number of Members already say we should bring it back and conclude it in the life of this session. We know our session ends on the 10th, unless we decided as an Assembly to extend those sitting days beyond the 10th up until possibly midnight, I guess, on the 24th.

It is a piece of legislation that is very significant, Mr. Speaker. Government may put this out as a small piece of legislation. There only are a small number of clauses in this bill, and that's true, but they are very significant and mean much, as we've talked about earlier, about the development of this Northwest Territories, the development of the people in the Northwest Territories, and what it means. Every agreement signed to date, there has been no piece to it that included a self-government provision. So this is a very big piece of legislation on that principle of self-government in the Northwest Territories.

Yes, we've heard that the federal government and the territorial government, that's our Cabinet, has signed off on this. The federal government's Cabinet has signed off on this and the Tlicho people have signed off on this and ratified it. This step, Mr. Speaker, that we are now coming to as a Government of the Northwest Territories is our government's way of bringing ratification to this bill. Is it appropriate that we take this and move it through at the pace that is being requested? In many minds, that is a very serious potential and outcome of this bill. Whether we have that debate amongst committee on a public hearing process, whether it's in the communities or have a very public debate in this House in Committee of the Whole, I think we have to give a full degree of attention to this bill and what it means to residents of the Northwest Territories. Once this is ratified, that means every agreement that has been signed to date, whether it was a self-government process or not or just a land claims process, those claims are going to have to have a clause in them that says anything given to one group, we shall benefit from as well. I know that's in the Inuvialuit one, that's in the Gwich'in one, and I'm sure that's in the Sahtu one.

As well, one has to say as a government, in our wisdom are we able to proceed to this stage and bring real effect to this bill, or is it a symbolic gesture, Mr. Speaker? I think as legislators we have to be sure that what we are doing is the right thing, not just for the sake of symbolism, but for bringing real legislation into this House and bringing it forward.

So, Mr. Speaker, in principle, it is a good bill. It will change the Government of the Northwest Territories and evolve to the next step, and we know there are many other claims in that process. I come from an area, the Beaufort-Delta, that is working on something in the area of self-government, as well, Mr. Speaker. So it is important that we deal with this as legislators in an open and transparent way. The residents of the Northwest Territories expect accountability from this government, and making sure that what we do is in the best interest of all people in the Northwest Territories. I know we'd like to do this and do it quickly for the benefit of the Tlicho people, and that's a very plausible thing. We need to look at that and see that in the light that it should be in. But, Mr. Speaker, I have a duty as a Member of the Legislative Assembly to all residents that I represent from my constituency, and until we have that public debate on this to the provisions of this and what it actually means...For example, what does clause 4 mean to the Government of the Northwest Territories, to the people of the Northwest Territories that I represent?

With that, Mr. Speaker, I would encourage that we get it to the public process. Committee, at this point, will have to decide if it's an on-the-road campaign in the sense of taking it out, or if we decide to bring it to this House for a review in Committee of the Whole. We must all be ready for the next stage to do due diligence. It's only what's expected of us by residents.

So in principle it's a good bill, and I would support getting this to the next stage, but I would have some serious questions that I hope the Cabinet, the Minister sponsoring this would have the appropriate answers as we go through that public process. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. To the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.