Question has been called. All those in favour, please signify. All those opposed? Thank you. The motion is carried.

---Carried

---Applause

Item 16, motions. Motion 20-14(6). The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a motion to amend Rule 70(1) of the rules of the Legislative Assembly.

WHEREAS Rule 70(1) of the rules of the Legislative Assembly prohibits the House from proceeding with a bill for 120 days after it has been referred to a committee other than Committee of the Whole, or until the report of the committee has been received by the Assembly;

AND WHEREAS the rules of the Legislative Assembly do not include a mechanism whereby a bill may be returned to the Orders of the Day upon the expiration of the 120-day period and the committee has not reported the bill back to the Assembly;

AND WHEREAS a formal mechanism is required for a request for an extension to the 120-day rule for the review of a bill by a committee;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, that Rule 70 of the rules of the Legislative Assembly be amended upon dissolution of the 14th Assembly by adding the following after Rule 70(1):

70(1.1) Notice of intent to proceed with a bill not reported in accordance with Rule 70(1) may be given to the House by the sponsor of the bill under the item "Ministers' Statements" on the Order Paper if it is a government bill, and under "Members' Statements" if it is a Private Members' Bill.

(1.2) On the third sitting day after receipt of a "Notice of Intent" the Speaker shall have the bill placed on the Orders of the Day in Committee of the Whole.

(1.3) A standing or special committee may request an extension of the 120-day review period by motion under the item "Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills."

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. We have a motion. The motion is in order.

Question has been called. All those in favour, please signify. Thank you. All those opposed? Thank you. In the chair's opinion the motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Thebacha, that Bill 33, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 2002-2003, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. We have a motion and the motion is in order. All those in favour? All those opposed? Thank you. The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 33 has had first reading. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Thebacha, that Bill 33, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 2002-2003, be read for the second time.

Mr. Speaker, this bill makes supplementary appropriations for the Government of the Northwest Territories for the 2002-2003 fiscal year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. We have a motion. The motion is in order. To the principle of the bill.

Question has been called. All those in favour, please signify. Thank you. All those opposed? Thank you. The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 33 has had second reading and, accordingly, the bill stands referred to Committee of the Whole. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and other matters: Bill 21, Protection Against Family Violence Act; Bill 22, Waste Recovery and Reduction Act; Bill 24, Midwifery Profession Act; Bill 25, Municipal Statues Replacement Act; Bill 26, Youth Justice Act; and Committee Report 18-14(6), Report on the Review of Bill 21, Protection Against Family Violence Act, Bill 24, Midwifery Profession Act, and Bill 26, Youth Justice Act, with Mr. Delorey in the chair.

I'll call Committee of the Whole to order. There are a number of items to consider in Committee of the Whole. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to recommend the committee continue consideration of Bill 26, and that we follow that with Bill 21 and Bill 24, and concurrently deal with Committee Report 18-14(6).

Thank you, Mr. Dent. The chair will call a short break and come back and consider Bill 26. Does the committee agree?

Yes, I would, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to introduce Shirley Kemeys-Jones, assistant deputy minister for the Department of Justice on my left; Patricia Gall, legislative counsel, legislation division; and Janice Laycock, acting director of policy and planning. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in the area of youth justice, I have some comments towards this bill. It's always good that we are taking into consideration how we deal with young offenders in our communities and trying to have them deal with the occurrences of what brought them before justice and to a justice committee. It's good that they are going to be dealing with what's happened in their own community amongst their own people, but I guess in looking at it in the long run, years ago that was probably done anyway. Parents and families and extended family used to take care of that situation in their communities. It seems like when we bring laws into existence, we create other problems. I can recall when the Young Offenders' Act first was introduced by Parliament, the impacts it had down the line and what it caused in communities, it just seems that we've developed a system that creates another problem.

For example, many times when a young person finds themselves in trouble with the law, they would end up being picked up and when the act that's now being replaced came into effect, they would say they are under a certain age and we can't deal with them. We will try to deal with it in these ways. We think somehow mysteriously when they reach the age of 15, they are going to become better people. As a parent with a number of children and having some experience now, maybe that's why I am a little more grey - some would say it's because of this line of work - when I look at my raising by my parents and how I look at things, it starts at a very early age of what happens at home. The courts or justice committees would be the last place we would ever want to be.

It seems as a society we are relying on courts and legislatures on making decisions on how to do things and to the point now where if a child is misbehaving for whatever reason and a parent tries to do something to pull that child in line, whether it's one smack on the behind or something, a charge is laid. Just recently there was a parent being charged and there are all kinds of different circumstances and as parents we all have to decide how to deal with our children. It seems to become more of an issue of how the government will deal with your children, how a peace officer or how your neighbour or somebody in the Northern Store would see you deal with your child and make a complaint. We've created so many rules that parents are afraid to deal with their children. Some people might shudder at the fact if I say something I was brought up with as a child and my father and mother did much to instill in me as a young child the ways they would want me to go. They were not always the nicest of ways. When I look back, I thank them for their direction and guidance because if you go by what the Bible says, "Spare the rod, spoil the child" we wonder why we are into situations where children are now taking parents to court.

I don't say that everybody go out there and grab a willow and do that. You can talk to most adults in the Northwest Territories in the small communities and find out when you discuss things and you talk about what happens when they were children and got in trouble with their parents, you would almost jokingly talk about how your grandmother made you go out and get your own spanking stick or willow, but you try that and you are up on charges quicker than you let the words slip out of your mouth.

We ask ourselves why has society gone to the direction it has and it's gone so bad, we had better make another law. Well, that law didn't address these issues, we had better change the law again. I still deal with some of my own families in cases, but other people in the Northwest Territories are also saying the history of the North, what happened to them as children should never be repeated and should never have been done. In some cases, that's true. But I don't believe there is anyone who was born on this earth who was born with the perfect ability to parent. Each one of us who have had children, it's a learning experience of how you deal with your child and how you try to teach them in the ways you hope they would come back to and respect your neighbour and respect your parents and so on.

But with all these laws, we have created systems where there is no more respect for our elders and for seniors. We hear more about elders' abuse and that happens by their own family members. What's gone so wrong to make these things happen that we have to write another law to correct the things that are going wrong? I don't think we will ever come up with all the right answers and as a government, it is our duty from time to time to try to put some laws in place that would benefit and secure the safety of our young people, but we can't go to the point of handcuffing society, parents, in how we deal with our own families.

I guess I see this rewrite and this work as a result of the federal legislation and us trying to change ours as a way of dealing with that. It's bringing it back to communities, to family members, to say deal with the situation locally. For years we've heard in this House and I have even said it myself along with other Members that I have worked with, how we cannot continue to send individuals off to other communities to do their time and come back and think everything is right. Unless somebody has really dealt with the issue and dealt with the people they've hurt or they've harmed, it seems like we have given them an out to deal with it. I speak from a different side in a sense. When it comes to responsibility and we have to take it as individuals, it seems to be when we are sent out of our community, whether it's alcohol abuse or some other substance abuse or some crime we've committed against society or against our fellow human being, that we have a difficulty dealing with it head on, so we would rather deal with it with some stranger up on a bench, telling us what to do and go to another community and serve our time away from people. Then when we come back, as individuals we play it like they've been on an extended holiday.

In some cases, Mr. Chairman, I think many of us can show examples where we have young offenders in facilities that are treated much better than our children are who are obeying the rules, but because they are low income families, don't have a truck or don't have someone to chauffeur them around, they are not better off than somebody who has committed a crime. So we've almost created something where the word gets around to an individual who doesn't like what's happening in their home and creates a couple of break and enters and they are young offenders and they are going to give you a warm place to sleep and meals better than you've had at home. Guess what? When you say you want to go someplace, they are going to pick you up and drive you there. We've created a system where it's almost a benefit. It's not a surprise, we've heard it before. It's better to be in one of these facilities.

We have wonderful weather now, but usually the cycle begins at this time of year when it gets darker and colder, there is a rash of break and enters or assaults that would send individuals back into facilities where they can have the better services than they would find in their community. Is that a problem of law? Is that a problem of fixing it by making law? To some degree we can, but we have to go right back to square one and that's our families and parents and how we deal with our children. Some people would not be appreciative of having that put back on their laps to say look at what we are doing as families. What are we doing as parents?

I have learned the hard way. My father once told me, as he told me on one occasion when I got myself into some trouble -- you have to understand my father to a certain degree and how he looks at things -- but he looked at me and he said my boy, I put it to the Lord and this is what the Lord said. Some people have to learn the hard way and if that's what he's got for you, that's the way it's going to be. That's had a lasting impact on my life and I will be sharing it with my grandchildren at some point, hopefully not in the way he shared it with me, but as a story they might be able to grasp and avoid some of the obstacles and difficulties we find as people in our communities.

So I think it's a good thing that we are coming back to dealing with our situations and what happens in community, in our community amongst our peers, which is a good thing. It just seems a shame that we've gone all the way around. It's almost gone full circle now. Informally, years ago, that used to happen. Somebody got in trouble, the family got together and talked to the individual, tried to correct them but then the rules got changed where if you tried to do that, you as an individual, as an adult, got into trouble because you tried to deal with things. You can talk to children now and they accuse you of abuse, to a certain degree. It's still a very scary world out there for parents, even more so than before. Some for the right reasons and some for the wrong, but I think it's time that we started dealing with some of these things in our communities amongst our peers and have them really say sorry to those they've hurt and harmed in whatever way. Will that be enough in some cases? Probably not.

When we create things and it's been so wrong to create a system that seems to put parents against children and children against parents, family members against family members and then against the court system, it takes a long time to finally come back and start dealing with each other as family as we would do normally to a certain degree. Some people have gotten so accustomed to our system and our facilities, it's still going to be better off than it is in their home settings and that's where they would rather be. They know the ways to get there. Unfortunately, that's almost generational now. We are going to have to break that at some point and that will be tough, but hopefully this is the right move and hopefully we can hold a course and do that. We are not going to shut all facilities down, as some would hope and all things will be perfect after, when it will be a long process and we will unfortunately still need some facilities, but I think it's a turn in the right direction. I apologize for my going on at some length, Mr. Chairman, but that's how I speak generally to the issue and put my thoughts on the record. Thank you.