The committee will now consider Bill 21, Protection Against Family Violence Act. I would like to ask the Minister if he has any opening remarks.

Minister's Opening Comments

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am pleased to speak today on Bill 21, Protection Against Family Violence Act. This bill provides new protections for people who are threatened with, or are victims of family violence. These protections complement Criminal Code and civil protections currently available.

The bill defines family violence and identifies who can apply for the new protections available. In setting out who can apply, the legislation clearly identifies elders as protected from abuse by their family. In response to concerns raised by standing committee and several of their witnesses, the definition of family violence has been amended to clearly state that forcible confinement is included.

Under the bill, people may apply for an emergency protection order from a justice of the peace 24 hours a day seven days a week. If the justice of the peace is satisfied on a balance of probabilities that family violence has taken place or there is immediate danger of family violence, they may make an emergency protection order.

An emergency protection order can include granting sole use of a home or other property, restricting communication between the people involved and the seizure of weapons or firearms by the police.

The Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories will review all emergency protection orders. The court may agree with the order or hold a hearing where they can agree with, change or revoke the order. Persons affected by the order can also apply to the court to have the order changed or revoked.

Also available under the bill are protection orders. These are longer-term orders available from the Supreme Court after family violence has occurred. They can include the same provisions as an emergency protection order, but may also include financial compensation and counselling orders.

The third new protection under the legislation is a warrant of entry. This is available 24 hours a day, from a justice of the peace who is satisfied someone who may be a victim of family violence, cannot be reached and is likely in the place to be entered. The warrant of entry allows someone to enter and search the place named, help the person who may have been a victim of family violence and remove anything that may be evidence of family violence.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to recognize the important contributions made by the Standing committee on Social Programs and the witnesses who appeared before them. With their input and suggestions, we have changed the name of the act and clarified the definition of family violence.

I would be pleased to answer any questions or concerns Committee of the Whole may have on this legislation. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have just a few short comments. The House has already had the benefit of our report, so I am not going to propose that we reread it. I would just like to say that our committee is pleased to report Bill 21, Protection Against Family Violence Act. This legislation can help victims of domestic violence in the majority of communities in the Northwest Territories. It provides more tools to the RCMP and to the court system to help victims of violence and their children deal with the aftermath of a dangerous situation.

Public hearings took place in September in communities of Fort Smith, Hay River, Wha Ti and Yellowknife with the majority of presenters favouring the legislation. Amendments were made in committee that strengthened the definitions of what constituted family violence in the areas of forced confinement and sexual abuse. An amendment was also made in committee to clarify that the Supreme Court could dismiss provisions of an emergency protection order that could not be supported by evidence or judicial fairness.

The Standing Committee on Social programs would like to thank the Minister and the Department of Justice for their hard work in getting this bill to this stage. The Members of the standing committee have several concerns relating to the implementation of the act and to include provisions to allow for the temporary custody of children in emergency protection orders. These and other concerns, Members of the Standing Committee on Social Programs may have will be brought out as we proceed. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would also like to just reiterate our thanks to the Department of Justice, to all the officials and to the Minister. It was critical in getting the bill to the House in the short timeframe we had and our staff were able to work with the Minister's staff and once again these folks have done a good job in making sure we get good legislation before us in a timely manner. I would like to thank them. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to introduce Janice Cooper, legislative counsel, legislation division to my immediate right; Lucy Austin, senior advisor for family law, directorate, to my left. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, it's particularly a nice coincidence that we are dealing with this on the same day that the Minister has announced we were just beginning Family Violence Awareness Week. I think that's particularly appropriate.

Mr. Chairman, I have been waiting to see this legislation come forward for a long time. I am not sure, but I may have been the first MLA to call for this type of family violence protection legislation. I first heard about Alberta's legislation at a seminar on seniors' abuse that happened here in Yellowknife several years ago.

So it's been a long time coming and I am happy to see it going forward as I think it is an important piece of legislation to help us deal with the issue of family violence. I would also like to congratulate the Minister and his staff in making sure we did get a chance to see this legislation in the life of this assembly. I am quite convinced that this legislation is something we should be proud of bringing into play.

Mr. Chairman, victims of family violence need immediate protection and they've got to feel safe in their own homes. Police need to be able to obtain immediate protection orders over the phone like they can in several other provinces. Right now, victims are sometimes further traumatized by having to follow an often overwhelming and time consuming legal process to obtain the protection they need. This legislation would make it easier to gain immediate protection. Too often, victims cannot report abuse right now for fear of being forced to leave their homes. This legislation may lead to more victims coming forward so we can help them and their families.

As the Minister pointed out earlier today, we have way overcrowded shelters. Nearly 700 women and children stayed in shelters in the last year and over 4,300 calls in the last year to crisis lines. That indicates that we have a very severe problem and if this legislation helps us to improve the situation for some of those people, then I think it will have been very worth our time to make sure that we got to see it.

I know we have heard from the seniors' society. They say this legislation will make it easier for elders to be protected from abuse. I think it's important to remember this legislation is only a tool to help us deal with family violence. I think we all know that more needs to be done. We need more resources for family programs that will help address the reprisals of family violence. For instance, I think we need to consider how families can best be served by having social workers come to family homes to support them, rather than removing family members or apprehending children.

---Applause

We need effective family unification programs that help supports families as a whole. We need to help families and individuals learn about effective parenting and relationship skills and we also need to support existing and new programs to help individuals deal with addictions.

Mr. Chairman, by keeping families together and supporting them as a family, we can bring about many of the changes that are needed to decrease family violence. It's important to understand and properly support families to make positive changes. We also need to understand the broad definition of family in the Northwest Territories and make sure our programs address extended families in all communities. In order for this legislation to help families in crisis, we must ensure the proper implementation of this legislation takes place. The legislation needs to be clearly understood by stakeholders and appropriate training has to be provided to all who will be involved in its implementation. It won't be worth the paper it's written on if frontline workers, the RCMP, justices of the peace and others are not adequately trained and supported to implement the legislation.

We can't afford to further traumatize victims of family violence. We must live up to our commitment by making sure provisions of this legislation are properly brought into force.

Mr. Chairman, as we all know, family violence is more common in the North. Nearly three in 10 Canadian women who have been married or live common-law have been physically or sexually abused. We know that rates are much higher in the North, especially among aboriginal women. The physical, emotional and psychological costs are impossible to determine. Many victims are afraid to leave their homes and many even lose their jobs because of high stress levels. This legislation will give people at risk another tool they can use to protect themselves and their families.

The effect family violence can have on children can be huge. They can be scarred for life and it plays a big role in whom they grow up to be and the values they believe in.

Mr. Chairman, as I mentioned earlier, the seniors told us they supported this legislation and they told us that one of the most disturbing forms of family violence is elder abuse. The seniors' society pointed out that there is not enough being done right now to protect elders in the Northwest Territories. Elders have contributed so much to our communities and continue to be important teachers, caregivers and role models. So it's our responsibility to make sure we bring in laws like this to help protect them.

As I have already said, I know that this sort of legislation is not going to resolve all the issues we have for victims of violence. But I think it really is a key part of the arsenal that we need to fight family violence. I would just like to take a moment to recognize the dedication and work of shelter workers, counsellors, police officers, social workers and the people who today are offering victims' services. Their commitment is admirable and I appreciate their involvement thus far in the development of this act. Mr. Chairman, preventing family violence must be our first priority. We must now turn our attention to how we can reunite families. This legislation is a tool that we can use, but we must never lose sight of our obligation to work on preventing family violence from occurring in the first place. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am not sure if I can add anything more to the very eloquent statement by the Member for Frame Lake. I just simply wanted to put on record that I am in full support of the legislation and its intent, purpose and spirit. I agree with Mr. Dent. Legislation is a big step and it's a clear statement from the House about the importance of the issue. In this case, it is the government's obligation and responsibility to make a legislative statement by passing legislation. However, we are aware of the dire situation that our society faced. We are constantly hearing of the stats that are not improving. While it is a coincidence that this week we are debating and passing this legislation, which is also the week of family violence awareness, just last week we saw yet another victim of domestic violence. We are always reminded and we ought to be mindful of the fact that so many people suffer from family violence and that too often we have family violence resulting in great danger to individuals and sometimes death.

So I think all the members here are aware that legislative action is just one component of combating and dealing with family violence. There are lots of other resources and support systems that have to be in place to prevent the conflict and distress in the families from happening by supporting the necessary resources in all areas, for children, for families and women to handle everyday life skills as well as parenting skills and dealing with any substance or alcohol and drug abuse.

I just wanted to make that short statement in support of other legislation and the need for this Legislature and the leaders of the Territories and throughout the land to keep pursuing and working on this issue that seems to be getting worse rather than better. We still have much more work to do, but this definitely is a step in the right direction and I think we ought to be very proud that we are making this step today. I certainly am glad that this issue did not fall off the legislative agenda that it was very close to doing. It's a good day, good work and I will end there. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, I thought I would say it's a good piece of legislation overall. I think as Members have stated, it's something we can use and it can be a tool that we can use as a Legislature and those who carry out the business of fulfilling these laws. But in everything we do, we have to be cautious about what we are doing and what end we are trying to achieve. For the most part, again, it's a good thing, but as Mr. Dent said, if proper training isn't given to those who will be implementing this law, then we could create more problems and difficulties in the process of people going and doing what they think is the way to do it. We have examples of that, Mr. Chairman, in laws that we have put in place in this government. Unfortunately, we have examples of families being taken apart because of somebody's interpretation of how things go or how they should be fulfilled or how an individual should be dealing with other family members.

So we have to ensure that the training is done for those people who are implementing the law. I could just say what we see here and what members of committee have heard, that this is what it is intended to do. I find through my experiences as a Member who has brought in laws, sat before Ministers, asked questions and been told this is the intent of what we are doing is meant to do and, unfortunately after it becomes law and it starts to be put into practice, people who aren't trained, they see the law and they have their idea of what it means and begin to implement it that way. It doesn't match what we've heard as legislators during the process. So I think it's key that education and training comes into it. Not to say that we shouldn't be careful in dealing with how situations occur. The definition of "family violence," for example, can incorporate a whole lot of things that one is going to have to put this into effect will have to be aware of. Some of them are straight forward, forcible confinement, sexual abuse, intentional recklessness, threatening act, things like that are very straightforward and clear to deal with.

What could be a little more difficult is in a place with what could be considered emotional abuse or things like that. We've heard that the seniors are in support of that and that's a good thing. I guess as a society, we think that everything is good and dandy until it actually becomes very apparent and drawn out in the courts. I think we have to ensure that with this law coming into place, we have the appropriate training put into place and understanding and intent of this law, so we don't have our courtrooms filled and applications being made that could cause more family disruption and the pulling apart of families. I am a big supporter of families and trying to keep them together. Unfortunately there are times when the best thing is to pull families apart for a time to deal with their differences. Sometimes, unfortunately, it is something that is more permanent. At the same time, we don't want to find ourselves in a position or place where we end up pulling families apart for reasons other than those that were genuine, when an application was putting something forward or something of that nature.

With laws like this, we are continuing to put more authority into hands of those outside of the family and into those that would deal with the situation when it comes to this point and someone being called in. By doing that, we better ensure that our training is done to the appropriate level so we don't have individuals coming back to this Assembly complaining that we've put a law in place that has torn their family apart for no other reason than somebody being disgruntled in a family. That's not to be taken lightly and not to take the other situation of someone going to a point where they feel they have to call someone to bring the law into action. I have also seen the other side where trying to do what we think is best, sometimes we go beyond what many people have thought of or when the training isn't done. We leave it to the individual who is applying the law to start bringing in an interpretation of their own and that could lead to some problems of its own. It's a good thing as far as coming forward as we have heard, but at the same time we must ensure there is an adequate amount of training for those individuals who are going to be in the field and applying this law. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My comments are more around the area of implementation and realistic terms in implementing emergency protection orders in communities where you don't have the facilities with regard to shelters. I think realistically we have to realize and ensure that there's a system in place that works in all aspects of our smaller communities or medium-sized communities. A lot of times legislation gets passed in this House with great intentions, but what it does is cause chaos in a lot of our small communities who don't have the resource people or the resources for facilities or programs to assist in those areas. We can sit here and talk about why the legislation is there, but I think we have to dig a little deeper and find the stem of where these problems come from.

There are many communities who depend on seasonal employment three or four months of the year. The rest of the year you are having to live on income support, social housing, alcoholism, drug abuse, violence. These things are an aspect of life, but you have to get to the core problems. Where do these things stem from? I think you can go back two or three generations to your great-grandparents when the day the North was being occupied through the fur trade and the hostels and the major influx of southern societies as we know them today. Most aboriginal communities have lost the whole aspect of family. Many people have seen violence going on for two or three decades. Violence is in our communities. The frustration is that people are seeing their children going through the same cycle as they did. I think we have to find ways of changing that cycle of life, so that we can find a healthy society that we work with.

The key to me to deal with that is you have to have good programs and services to assist those people who realize at the end of the day they might not have good parenting skills or good social skills. Being illiterate is not a crime. There are people out there who are not as lucky as most of us. They have the right to have the means of dealing and coping in our society. They know they have to change the way they do things and they know there is help out there for them. Help is only as good as what you receive from it.

I have been lecturing the Minister of Health and Social Services for the last week, but I was doing it to prove a point. We have a system that does not work in our communities. We have programs that aren't even delivered in our communities. I think it's important that we, as a government, realize that when we pass legislation, we should have a system in place that has 100 percent guarantee that you can implement that legislation that you pass. I think what we've done is adopted good legislation from other parts of Canada, but other parts of Canada do not deal with systemic problems in the Northwest Territories. It very much saddens me to see a family member, relative or see their children being taken away, seeing families broken up, seeing the grandparents raising their grandchildren and not enjoying their retirement. Much of that stems from alcoholism, which happens everywhere in the Northwest Territories. Who supplies the most amount of alcohol in the Northwest Territories? The Northwest Territories Liquor Commission, an agency of the Government of the Northwest Territories.

We can incarcerate all the people in the world, we can pass all the laws and make a lot of legislation, but unless we deal with the systemic problem which we all know is out there, we can sit here day in and day out, pass legislation, take children away, break up families and have a system in place that gives the whole administration arm of government by way of enforcement of our legislation to do anything less than what people have done for the last 100 years. The greatest thing to do is incarcerate people, put them away and they're dealt with. It's great we have legislation to protect families and protect people from injuring each other, but I think before we move on any more legislation, we have to, as a government, ensure that we have the resources to deal with the problems when they are there and have a workable system in place.

We have money now sitting at the health board for alcohol and drug workers. It's been sitting there for two years and the biggest problem in my communities is people calling me and crying to the Minister on the speakerphone that they can't get alcohol and drug programs to go to a treatment centre in Hay River. If we can't deal with those little things, how do you expect us to deal with something like this?

I think it's very hard for me to see a relative that comes to me and says my kids were taken away because there really is nothing I can do about it because they are protected under legislation. We have to make sure we do pass laws that have the intentions that they are set for, but also have the ability to implement what we intend through the passing of that legislation. We need to make sure we have the tools to not only deal with the victim, but also deal with the prosecutor and the offender, so we don't start institutionalizing people to the point where that is the only easy way to deal with our problems. We could spend $50 million building jails, but we can't spend a couple hundred thousand to find alcohol and drug funding to establish a treatment centre in the Northwest Territories. We have one facility in the Northwest Territories and we all know what the problem is.

So I think it's important to ensure we pass legislation. We do have to have the tools to protect families and our children, but we also have to realize that being poor, being illiterate, living on social assistance for most of your life does not make you a bad parent. I think because of who you are and where you live, it should mean something to those people who realize there is a way to change your life. Giving them the tools to help them change is all most families in communities are asking for.

So as the Minister and department responsible for this legislation, I would like to ask at the end of the day that you have a system in place that can measure the legislation you bring forward ensuring that first it does what you want it to do and improve the lives of people in our communities and ensure we do away with violence, alcoholism and homelessness, people who don't have a job and people who are dealing with illiteracy. That is the stem of our problem. We have a responsibility to ensure that when we pass legislation, we have the ability to enact it and also implement it so it finds a system that avoids seeing large numbers of people incarcerated or large numbers of victims because we don't have the tools to deal with the sole problems in our society. With that, mahsi cho.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I may, I would like an opportunity to respond to some of the comments. I think it's reciprocating to extend our gratitude to our staff, both from the Department of Justice and the standing committee to try to understand the intent of this piece of legislation.

Certainly I want to acknowledge the input of the stakeholders and I think if we look back at the standing committee report, the excerpts taken from the various presenters certainly indicates the drafting in this piece of legislation the importance the department has placed in understanding the value of those comments. In all due respect, with respect to yourself as chair, we have taken into consideration a number of comments that may lend credence to other departments as they build upon this piece of legislation and the importance of it. I just wanted to let the Members know that we have listened well and we have heard the public and the standing committee. On behalf of the Department of Justice I want to say we are very pleased to have worked with the standing committee and your officials. I just want to convey that to the standing committee through the chair. Thank you.