Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Braden.

Mr. Speaker, my questions this afternoon are for the Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board. In December of 2001, more than two years ago now, the panel that was sent out to look at legislative changes came back with a recommendation to conduct an independent review of WCB operations. In making that recommendation, it went on to say it should be done with a view to recommending system-wide change in structure, process and attitudes. The panel believes such an operational review is of utmost importance and should be conducted immediately, prior even to the enactment of any legislative changes arising from the report. So it seems that we've already jumped the gun perhaps by adopting this report and not proceeding on an operational review. My question, Mr. Speaker, is what plans does the Minister have for working with his Nunavut counterpart to engage in an independent review of WCB operations. Thank you.

Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the work done and the Act Now report, the work done by the legislative review panel, was good. I was with the Member on the committee that looked at the phase I changes and implementation of those changes in the life of the last government. I think the Member is aware that we will be coming forward with phase II now to clean up the remainder of the recommendations that need to be addressed, and I'm optimistic that we can do that early in the life of this government. If we know that there are things that need to be addressed...In the last Assembly, we recognized, as a committee, that, for instance, the Appeals Tribunal needed to be more independent. We made those kinds of recommendations and those were addressed.

The WCB Board of Governors came forward with some proposals to change staff reporting relationships and things like this, and I think that was a welcome change. My concern about an operational review would be we could conceivably spend a heck of a lot of money with very vague terms of reference and not have much we can work with as a result. So I would want to sit down with committee and talk about the things that we've heard from our constituents that need to be addressed, and see if we can't do something about those first. I'm not ruling out an operational review, but obviously it has to be done in conjunction with Nunavut. I think that we need to get together as a committee and talk about some of the things that we've been hearing from our constituents. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister is absolutely right; that the requirements and the views that we've heard from stakeholders during the legislative review are the ones we should be paying attention to. I'm not really satisfied with the answer that we can perhaps go around

and do some selective tinkering. I really do believe that a full-scale operational review is necessary. I have one constituent, for instance, who has waited 10 months for a first-level decision, six months for a second-level decision, and more than five months now for a date yet to be scheduled for a tribunal-level appeal. So the status quo just isn't working. I want to press the Member again: What is the hang-up for not engaging a full-scale operational review? Thank you.

Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Bell.

As I've said, my only concern with a full-scale study, full-scale review, is that it could cost a lot of money and not make much of a difference unless we sit down to talk about the terms of reference and sit down to talk about what exactly we hope to achieve and what the deliverable result would be at the end of the day.

The Auditor General did do an extraordinary review for the WCB in 2002. The report makes a number of suggestions, and that has been received now by myself. It makes a number of suggestions that relate to management processes and potential improvements. I could certainly sit down and speak to the ordinary Members, and I had planned to bring this to committee anyway for discussion. But I think there are some things that are underway that would improve the operational efficiency of the WCB, and I think we should have a discussion about those before we set off on some course to spend a lot of money without much of a sense of where we're going. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

The Minister brings forward an offer here that is hard to refuse, that at least we should sit down and look over these things. But he seems to have precluded that it's not going to get us anywhere because it will be really expensive and take a long time. I would like to hear the Minister state more clearly, if he wishes to, of course, Mr. Speaker, that he will engage in a discussion with Members of this House and with his Nunavut counterpart to look at how an operational review could be projected. Will he at least give us that assurance? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Bell.

Thank you. I will certainly sit down and discuss the issue with my Nunavut counterpart for the WCB, and would also propose that I come before committee. We have to discuss the phase II legislative changes that need to be implemented. Obviously, I need committee support in order to make those changes, and everything is on the table. We can talk about a whole range of issues, and if the committee believes that they make sense, then I'm not resisting that.

I am reluctant to chart off on some operational review that at the end of the day doesn't get us much in the way of deliverables. So I would like to make sure that there's a very succinct and clearly-articulated direction before we move forward on something like this. Thank you.

Final supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Mr. Speaker, I look forward to joining in the Minister's articulation of all those other difficult words, too. We've got still more significant employment situations ahead of us: Snap Lake mine, perhaps 500 jobs over the next 20 years; the pipeline that may peak at 7,000 construction jobs. Would the Minister consider that an operational review now will help us prepare for this new era, this new generation, in fact this tidal wave of new workers? Aren't we going to be able to put that to good use in the near future? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There's no doubt with the pace of resource development in the Northwest Territories that we have to be prepared for it and the WCB has to be prepared for it. I know this is something that the Board of Governors has been discussing. Obviously, there's going to be a lot of work related to oil and gas, related to mining in the future, and we do have to have a plan of action for being able to deal with that and make sure that our legislation is prepared and up to snuff and that the organization is able to handle the increased workload. I think anything that can further that goal makes sense. Again, I'm certainly willing to sit down and discuss that with the committee as we move forward. Thank you.

Item 6, oral questions. Member for Hay River North, Mr. Delorey.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, keeping with the topic of WCB and following up on my Member's statement, I would like to ask the Minister responsible for WCB why it is that WCB benefits end with the death of an injured worker. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Bell.

Mr. Speaker, for the pensions that are paid to workers, there are a number of different approaches that can be taken, but there really is no getting around the fact that when we look at pensions being paid out, the bulk of those pensions are paid for by deductions collected from employers. If we want to further enrich pensions of any nature, then we have to find a way to pay for it. As I say, there just is no magic and we have to make sure that the system is sustainable and can be afforded. So any additional changes that we might

propose to make we have to find a way to pay for them. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Delorey.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I suspect any pension plans are paid for by either employees or taxpayers as a source of revenue. What makes the WCB pension policy different than any other pension plan, such as Canada pension plan or any private pension plans? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board, Mr. Bell.

They are pensions paid to workers to compensate them for injury on the job. Thank you.