Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under the NWT Act, the Auditor General of Canada will audit our government on a yearly basis. So Members will be provided with a report from the Auditor General

throughout the year. They will have an opportunity to sit down and review a report and question our government as to what the findings may be at that time. So the external side of it is through the Auditor General of Canada.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't know if this subject has been broached before, but I am going to ask it. The Audit Bureau is there and has a set purpose, but has any past government had a look at perhaps taking the Audit Bureau outside and more at arm's length of government, so it can serve more of a purpose and we may be able to, in tight financial times, realize a cost-savings on doing something like that? Has that subject ever come up in previous governments, that we take a look at the Audit Bureau and maybe make it a little more arm's length from government?

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the benefit of moving it out and privatizing would have to be measured against what benefits we receive right now. Right now, the positions within the Audit Bureau help us to manage internally to provide the services of internal audits of fraud and it's a tool that we use to help us ensure from this side of the table, the Financial Management Board Secretariat, that all departments receiving funds from the government are using those funds as they were voted or as they were given in agreements or contracts. Right now, the benefit of it internally is as a management tool and it provides us that service of where we need to look at things or do an audit or investigate potential fraud. We would have to review the potential of having this type of service done externally and see if there is a cost-savings. That idea can be questioned as to the amount of savings that might be there or might not be. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The final comment I have, Mr. Chairman, is I know he's new to the position, but I wonder what is his sense of the Audit Bureau and its role in this government. What does the Minister feel that may be and whether he thinks maybe in our operational review, if we are going to have a full operational review, that he undertake to have a look at the Audit Bureau and its role and function inside this government? I am just looking for his thoughts on that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Audit Bureau being part of the Financial Management Board Secretariat is an important tool that I would have as Minister and that the Financial Management Board would have in looking at how our expenditures are being utilized. We do the internal operational audits in all of the departments. We do audits for financial claims prepared under the federal/territorial cost-sharing agreements. We do investigative audits that respond to our management concerns and corporate control functions, which assess the internal financial controls within departments.

So it is important for us, especially me as Minister, to know that we are the check stops. We are the checks and balances of the system. If the system starts to fail, things can go wrong very quickly in the government. I see it as an important tool that we need.

The external audits that can be done to look at government itself and how we do things from an external point of view is done by the Auditor General of Canada and, at times, on the request of the Assembly, has done specific audits on specific departments or specific expenditures of Cabinet of the day. The Auditor General does have the ability to take a very thorough look at any expenditure that we would make as a government. I see that also as an important tool of all Members of the Assembly to ensure we follow the rules we set out and go forward on that basis. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Any further questions? Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for that, Mr. Minister. The deficiency I see in this is we have the Audit Bureau, but we are actually checking ourselves. We have a function of this government that is mandated to investigate or audit our own operations and to me there is something not quite right with that and something about that doesn't sit well with me. The farther away from government that we can get the operation of a body like the Audit Bureau, the better. A lot of times, folks who have worked in the Audit Bureau worked in other departments; they are familiar with other people in the department. I would feel more comfort in knowing it was more at arm's length from government than it currently is today. Those are some comments, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the function, as I stated earlier, is an important one because it plays a role in how we deal with ourselves as a government and internal procedures and expenditures by government departments. As I see it, my role as Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board, is to ensure that as this House votes on expenditures, as we set directions and follow the Financial Administration Act and manual, we are following our rules. As a Minister of this government and Minister in the Executive Council, my role is to ensure that the other Ministers are following our rules and procedures. So this part of the secretariat is one that would help me in making sure that our rules are being followed and doing those internal audits.

At the same time, as a government, through our process of reviewing ourselves and the business we conduct, we will have to look at all aspects of how we deliver business and what is more efficient. Right now, it is a critical component, the way it is used for internal purposes. As Minister responsible, I have to ensure that we have to follow the rules we set for ourselves. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Any further general comments on page 2-53?

Audit Bureau, operation expense, total operations expense, $1.263 million.

Page 2-54, information item. Any comments?

Technology service centre, chargebacks, information item, page 2-55.

Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The technology service centre and the companion over in the Department of Public Works and Services are relatively new to our government, Mr. Chairman. They are kind of a centralized or streamlined approach to delivering technology and ITs and computers and all those things. I wanted to ask the department here for the reason for the split between the two departments. The FMB shop here, as the description says, provides a centralized service desk, desktop, server and network authentication support services. So it's technical. When things crash, I have someone I can call who can help. Public Works, on the other hand, seems to be more in the big, mainframe hardware side of things. Why do we have two different shops involved in the same service area?