Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Maybe the Minister could tell me about the reduction from 2002-03 to 2003-04 of $451,000.

Thank you. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Originally when the program was set up and we had a budget for this, we had $1 million and that was in 2002-03. Of that money, $500,000 sunsetted after the first year. It was initially envisioned that it would be a one-year program. We thought the program was very valuable and kept it on and kept the strongest pieces of the program in place to make sure that we continued to put resources behind these very worthwhile training initiatives.

I will get back to Mr. Villeneuve's question quickly, but I did want to provide Ms. Lee with the information she requested as it relates to corporate services employees. There are 95 employees in the department under corporate services. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. If there are no further general comments, would you like to proceed in detail? Corporate management, page 11-11, grants and contributions, $1.995 million.

Let's go on to page 11-15, environmental protection. Maybe before I proceed to the next section, we'll take a 10-minute break.

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I will call the committee back to order. We are on page 11-15, environmental protection services, operations expense, total operations expense, $2.931 million.

Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have some questioning in terms of the energy management that shows up on page 11-16. As well, if I could go a little further ahead to the grant that shows up to the Arctic Energy Alliance, $260,000 an also the energy conservation grants of $300,000. Mr. Chairman, I have a copy of the Arctic Energy Alliance financial statements for last year and I am trying to make heads or tails of the cash infusion the government offers the Arctic Energy Alliance. I can't really see where that money goes into the organization or how it's spent from these statements. I wonder if the Minister is aware of how the funding in the amount of $560,000 is spent inside the organization, the Arctic Energy Alliance. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Our contribution is $260,000 and the energy conservation management program is a departmental program. That is an additional $300,000. So it's $260,000 from RWED to the Arctic Energy Alliance.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Does the Minister see a definite duplication in terms of a delivery of a service under the energy conservation grant of $300,000 and the Arctic Energy Alliance?

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The $300,000 is distributed amongst government agencies, communities and aboriginal organizations to help them

promote conservation. So it is different than the $260,000 that is contributed to the Arctic Energy Alliance.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To me, Mr. Chairman, and I am not sure to the Minister, but they seem to accomplish the same thing. I know the department spends three-quarters of a million in an area called energy management, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Delorey spoke of it earlier. I don't really see the difference in terms of what both things have to offer. I know there is a briefing note that is prepared here. If you compare the energy management at RWED and energy management with Arctic Energy Alliance, it's quite a fine line. They both seem to try to do the same thing, Mr. Chairman, and I know there are a few Regular Members on this side of the House that definitely have some questions on that.

The Arctic Energy Alliance financial statements show membership dues coming in. They've got two different line items from the Government of the Northwest Territories, one for $150,000 and another one from NWT Crown corporations of $67,500 and some other membership dues. I am having trouble seeing where the $260,000 actually goes into the Arctic Energy Alliance. Maybe the Minister or his staff could help me find out where and what that $260,000 accomplishes.

I think you have to look at the overall mandate of the Arctic Energy Alliance and recognize that we are one of the funding partners. I can talk about a little bit about some of the programs that are delivered. The energy management program under the Arctic Energy Alliance and in their contribution agreement, obviously they report on major activities. For instance, the energy management program works with the general public, they respond to telephone queries and drop-in inquiries and they have also been with clients, residential, institution and commercial clients. I will give you a few examples; the Wha Ti sustainable community project; Aurora College; Ramparts Hotel in Fort Good Hope; helped Lutselk'e with a community energy plan, created the Ener-Guide for houses; worked with the Yellowknife school board to assist them in developing a funding proposal. There are a number of other agencies they have assisted. In addition, they have a communications program and they target the two separate segments. First the general public, they put out a newsletter, Energy Speak. I think Members have seen it. They also put out a home and small building maintenance checklist. They host the Energy Action Awards. They have an Arctic Energy Alliance Web site. There are some other initiatives under stakeholder, residential, institutional and commercial. For instance, energy efficiency workshops they carry out and in the past they've done that in conjunction with the Energy Secretariat, also solar wall poster and advertising.

So there are a number of initiatives they have carried out. I can ramble off a number of those programs in substantial detail. I think it probably makes more sense to sit down with committee and talk about the mandate of the Arctic Energy Alliance and make sure we have a clear understanding of what it is, and look at the other agencies of our government that provide like services or compatible service and talk about whether there is a duplication of mandate. This is something I am prepared to come forward to committee to discuss. We need to get a handle on that and decide what agency is best able to deliver these programs. I acknowledge we don't have enough money to duplicate our efforts. If there is duplication, we have to look at a consolidation of those efforts. Without some more information, just an off-the-cuff approach here in committee would do this justice. I propose I come forward to committee and we have a more substantial discussion about the mandate.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister just gave us an outline of what the Arctic Energy Alliance does and maybe he could give us an indication of what the energy management folks do in his department, for the record.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Bell.