Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are starting out on a road to try to coordinate some of our efforts in terms of the Mackenzie Valley development. We look at this and see this position, not that I really agree with the $850,000 later on in this supplementary appropriation act, but the $120,000 that appears here, Mr. Chairman...We set off on a course to try to get some coordination and here we are in this act trying to find another way to set up a person in another department that isn't directly associated with our Mackenzie Valley pipeline office to do some of the work for the Mackenzie Valley pipeline office. That's what this position looks like it will be doing. So, again, we want to get some coordination, but it appears even in this supp we are not getting the coordination. So where is that coordination, Mr. Chairman? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Member referenced other positions within government and this not being dovetailed with the other departments. A resource economist would have a certain skill set in how they would develop models and plans. What we are looking for here is something that would help government overall, not just for the pipeline area but for all impacts in the Northwest Territories, and it just so happens that we have a very large one on the horizon being the Mackenzie Valley pipeline. We know as a government that we are not prepared for that at this time. So we need to take the necessary steps to ensure that we are prepared and that we have the right information so that all departments can build their plans around that, and as we build our fiscal equation as well, that we have the right information when we make our arguments, whether it's to the federal government or how we put our other deals together with companies that would be working in the Northwest Territories. So this area, even though there are similar positions within RWED, they are more on the resource economist area of work and this would be much different in terms of the social cumulative impacts of what would happen, for example, with the increased development. What happens with the crime rate? What happens on the social side of the scale and then building that information together so we can be better prepared?

As I stated earlier, when we initially looked at this, as this government, the 15th Assembly, we could see that a lot of departments were trying to be prepared and they were coming forward with different submissions all to do with something similar. We sent them back to say that it's not the right approach and we want to see a more coordinated approach to this whole area. That was done and that is why you see this. This one section deals with a number of departments, because we feel that it needs to be more coordinated and that's the approach we are taking. So it's not the best, but we do have to be prepared and this is the minimum that we are looking at to get prepared, so that we can have the proper information as a government to build the plans and the business case that we would need.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Minister, for the response. You do make a good case for this type of position to be located in this new Mackenzie Valley pipeline readiness office. If this is so important, why is it located in the Bureau of Statistics, Mr. Chairman?

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, Finance is one of those departments that deals behind the scenes with all departments. With the Bureau of Stats being within the Department of Finance, the resources there are for the use of all departments, not one department to go do one specific area, but for work with all departments. So it's felt that this is the necessary location to put it in, so we can use the shop to look at the impacts of the development coming down the valley, as well as the other impacts that are now happening in the Northwest Territories and the other mines that would be coming online here. So Finance is one of those areas that deals with all departments and that's why it is felt that this area is required within this shop. That's why we see it in this area. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess I would disagree with the Minister. I think that given our current workforce and the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, I believe we can cover off some of the social and cumulative impacts of resource development. That's what the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development's mandate is. They've got specialists on staff. They have the staff there and I know they have the resource economists on staff at RWED. Again, every time we look around, Mr. Chairman, the workforce just keeps piling up and snowballing. We try to make up reasons or develop reasons why we have to have another position. This just happens to be Finance; tomorrow it might be another department. At some point in time, we have to try to look around and coordinate with the resources we have in

place. To me, we are just not doing that because this belongs somewhere else. I believe we already have the expertise in place in another department to carry this out. I hear the Minister saying that that isn't the case, but maybe we should go back to the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development and ask them some questions before we come before the Legislative Assembly with a supp for another position in Finance and I don't think we have done that, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development was fully involved in this process and working with other departments in building the submission that's here today. As I stated to Members already, when this issue was first brought to the FMB, we sent it back to departments to sit down and work together and coordinate how we would begin to deal with this. So this is a coordination of departments and building the situation. The duties, responsibilities and workload of a resource statistician versus a resource economist are not identical. They may be similar in areas, but they are different. The Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development was, again, involved in this process when the development of this submission was put together and brought forward. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I want to ask the Minister with this item here in terms of the coordination of the communities. We are now looking at the territorial government and the office here in Yellowknife, but I would like to really focus on the communities and see what type of assistance was given to the communities. I think this could be done in house and this money here could be used in our communities in the Mackenzie Valley. There are a number of resource developments happening in the regions and the communities are really crying for help. What is the message that we, as a government, are sending to them? We say we want to cut back and here we are increasing positions and hiring consultants and increasing the salaries in headquarters. So how is this going to be impacted in the communities in terms of the request that they are asking for and looking at the impacts of resource development, especially the social impacts? That's a real big one that seems to go off somewhere else and is not being talked about very much by this government here. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we are unable to afford to put positions like this in each region or community. It's felt that through this position within Finance and tied already to the Bureau of Stats that works with the gathering of the information from all communities in the North in all areas, whether it's the economic side or the health status side. That's why this position is required. This position will help with putting together and building plans so that we can be better prepared for the community impacts that will be felt by this, not just at a territorial level but regional level right down to the community impacts. That's the work required now for being better prepared. That's why it's felt that this position is required at this time so that we can build those cases and get the information, so the departments can be prepared, whether it is to put it into their business plan process for coming forward to request more money to spend in their areas where the impacts would be in the communities. As well, on a territorial side when we deal with the federal government, we need to have the best information possible, so that we can build our business case and show that the impacts of the North are being felt even though it looks like we are doing great up here in the Northwest Territories because of all the development.

On the other side of it, we don't get the same treatment on the funding side or pay day at the end of this process, so we are spending up front. So this position is required at this time and would help build a case in dealing with the impacts that communities are feeling. It's the front end of what's going to be happening.

Initially when the supps in this area started coming forward, it added up to much more in requests, but we felt that it wasn't possible at this time and it was better to build some of this into the business plan, and that's what they have been directed to do. We felt that these were the critical areas that needed to be moved on, and brought it forward through a supplementary appropriation. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, part of this whole package, this supplementary appropriation, there are two areas that deal specifically with communities and that's the area of the health and social services community demonstration projects that are supported and there are 14 sites in 2004-05 that will be assisted with funding to deal with their projects, as well

as...I am sorry, that was the language nest area. The language nest is the money we were asking for in this budget, the $877,000. I just stated there are a number of communities that are going to be getting that support.

There are a number of communities involved in the health and social services community demonstration projects. It was specifically designed to go to those communities that would be impacted by this type of development. Again, that one is $950,000. When you look at some of the other positions that are being identified in the request from Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, those aren't all headquarter positions either. The majority of positions are within headquarters; that's straightforward. Within the $120,000 that's within Finance, because the Bureau of Stats is already located here in Yellowknife. It would be much more expensive if we wanted to set this up outside of using the support that's already in place. That's one of the things we have to look at as we develop these scenarios, is trying to do this in the most cost-effective manner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I understand the cost of doing business in the small communities greatly increases outside the Yellowknife area. I concur with the Minister on that. I live in the Sahtu. I know the cost of living up there and even further north up in the Beaufort-Delta. However, as you go outside of Yellowknife and look at the resource development happening in the smaller communities, the people are greatly impacted and they are asking for help in the small communities. The message that we were given was that it tends to stay in Yellowknife because of the cost. Sometimes I think in some ways we should look at supporting the small communities. Otherwise, we all might as well move to Yellowknife or Hay River. That's the way it is looking. I can't support that, Mr. Chair. There are communities that desperately need help and there are major impacts that are happening in the Mackenzie Valley or in the Sahtu. In the Sahtu, 34 percent of the pipeline is going to be passing through the land mass. The amount of activity happening in the Sahtu has increased dramatically. I just think we could do more in terms of helping the communities. That's all I have to say, Mr. Chairman. I know my time is up. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For the record, Mr. Chairman, even though I have taken on the position of a Minister within this government, I haven't forgotten my roots. I come from a community that is far removed from headquarters and my heart is still there. At the same time, being responsible for the financial end, we have to come up with an appropriate balance or try to come up with a balance. This area is one where as a government we are just beginning to really begin the work of trying to be prepared for the potential impacts of a pipeline. We need to do some of this upfront work, and what you are seeing is a start of what we need to do as a government to be better prepared so we can build a business case so we can look at the community impacts. So it's felt that this is an area that's required so we can do that type of work, so we can assist communities down the road. Again, this is the start. This is where we start to build a plan of how we are going to deal with those impacts that are coming down the road, and departments will use this information in how they need to resource and be prepared for these impacts that come down the road. So the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs can use this information. The Department of Education and the Department of Health and Social Services, all departments will be able to access this information and build the appropriate business plans around them and they would ask for more resources if it shows that there is going to be much more demand for the services we provide today. So we are doing a number of things that are right now going to be helping with that, and this supplementary appropriation includes another couple of key pieces that are required on the front end so we can be better prepared as a government for the impacts of the development that's going to happen here in the Northwest Territories.

As well, within the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, they've done some initial steps. For example, they've hired the regional petroleum advisors in the different regions that will be affected. We've got Fort Simpson, Norman Wells, Inuvik and potentially another community. I believe Hay River is one of the ones identified, as well.

We are taking those steps, but again we need to be more coordinated. This is where each department that has some specific areas needs to be better prepared in planning for the impacts of development that are going to come down the road. If we don't do this, we are going to continue to scramble. We are going to continue to do one piece at a time and try to come up with the best plan. So we felt that this was necessary. This approach is the way to go and, believe me, it's much smaller than departments initially wanted. It was felt that this was what was required at this time to proceed. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Villeneuve.