Thank you, Mr. Bell. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't know; I don't think it's an important point, but the Power Corporation chairperson is appointed by the government, but I thought the CEO is appointed by the board. I was just trying to see a picture of what this new board is going to look like. Am I to understand that the programs, as they exist now under two corporations, are going to be the way they are until such time as the corporation goes through their review and decides how and what programs they are going to deliver?

I can understand that we needed to do consultation for five or six years. I can understand that we needed to do some consultation to make sure that there is a buy-in, but it really is unbelievable how much consultation has gone on. We know that the business program review has done their review, but still, apparently we couldn't implement those and we are still going to be going through another review once these two corporations become one.

I can see how, as the Minister indicated earlier, that the review should be done by those who are going to implement them and who are going to deliver them, but, at the same time, there is a downside in that, in that they might be too focused on everyday delivery and the life of these programs and not be able to get that broader perspective that the Ministers or politicians and the policy objectives of the organization, such as what is the role of government in developing businesses in non-market communities versus market economy.

I want to know, is this new corporation going to be delivering programs differently. Because I really think there are different business needs and financial needs in small communities versus market economies like Yellowknife. Are they going to be able to do that? I want to know also, what is the breakdown. Is the Minister going to be able to give a breakdown on how much of their budget should go into investments and how much should go into grants and contributions that are more socially objectively oriented, as opposed to financing which is more economically focused?

I still have a lot of questions about how this new group is going to look and what is the relationship with the Minister and Cabinet with the new board. What is the overall objective of the corporation? Is it any different? Is it much different, and, if so, how different than how these two corporations operate now?

The Minister didn't have to worry about not being able to answer some of the earlier questions, because I still have a lot more. Maybe he could attempt to give me some information on that. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Bell.

I see that, and I'm not sure I got all of those ones either, but we will keep going here and by the end of it I will hopefully have been able to have answered all of the questions.

In terms of how the money will be appropriated, the appropriation of this Assembly and how much goes into subsidiaries and how much goes into investments, those specifics will be agreed to by the Minister. The board will be directed in how that funding is to be allocated. We will have some discussion around that through the business planning process with committee and we will debate the various merits and look at a number of factors in trying to determine what would be most effective.

The new board will be made up of, I think at this point, some current members and some new members. I am going to go out to all the Members of the Assembly and also solicit interest from the broader public. I think that we can expect, and are hopeful, that the expertise of the people on that board will be able to deliver on a very effective program and service review.

Eligibility criteria have been established in the new act. The person can be eligible for appointment if they have owned or managed a business or an enterprise in the NWT or has, in the opinion of the Minister, business expertise relevant to the economy of the Northwest Territories. I think that we are going to get some very capable and exciting people with new and good ideas to bring to the table.

Having said that, I don't want a five or six-year program service review either, and I am going to direct this. As I said, the first order of business this organization is to conduct is a program and service review in no more than a year, and be able to come back to this Assembly with our findings and our discussions around the types of programs and services that we need to be delivering, keeping in mind our strategic priorities of economic diversification.

We do need a flexible organization. It would have been very difficult to pin all of these factors down in new legislation, because as the economy changes and our priorities change and evolve, it is very important that we can adapt quickly to necessary change, and that simply isn't a reality if things are enshrined in legislation. I know the Member well knows this, so that was the necessity in having much of the detail in the policies and regulations that flow from the programs.

We will certainly work with committee members, with all Members of this House, to make sure that we have got it right and we are not going to waste a lot of time doing it. We are going to move very quickly, and I hope the Member will see that and I hope that we will be able to deliver. I am very confident that we will have a new and effective organization. It will be, because we have this enabling legislation that allows us to do some new and interesting things that we are not currently able to do. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. General comments. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the areas that I have tried to get a bit of a handle on is the difference between a venture or an enterprise that belongs to this kind of and entity and those that are undertaken directly and specifically by the government, by Cabinet. One example of that, of course, would be the loan guarantees and things we have made to the secondary diamond industry.

The amount of money, it seems, may not be at all outside of the scope of what this new entity can handle. But for some reason -- again using the example of the cutting and polishing shops -- Cabinet takes responsibility and decisions are made, it seems, for political reasons.

The question that I have with this new entity here, are we going to see more ability, more direction, that any kind of business venture that the GNWT might want to entertain should be undertaken by this new corporation here? That our Cabinet or Ministers are not going to be tempted or lured into getting into some of these different kinds of ventures. What kind of separation are we going to see between this corporation and those ventures undertaken directly by government? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Thank you. One of the reasons that I think you see loan guarantees being carried out the way they are and using the diamond example, is because there isn't currently the vehicle in our business programming to enable that. We don't have the mechanism to do that at that level in the existing organization, through the existing BCC.

What I am hoping is that in this program service review that is conducted, not only will we come out with some objectives and some discussion of priorities and where we think we need to be going, but there will be the identification of gaps and overlaps, and also some suggestion as to the type of tool kit in order to be able to effectively deliver the types of programs and services in this area that a government needs to.

There is the potential that this organization will come forward and say we need to have a program that allows for loan guarantees because of the amount of economic development going on and because of the booming economy, and that needs to be handled through this entity, as opposed to Cabinet, in future. Really, I think Cabinet's ability to do this has been out of necessity, because of a lack of any other vehicle to date. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So maybe I missed it in the answer then. Does this new entity have the capacity to undertake those kinds of ventures instead of Cabinet? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

This new legislation, as I have said, is flexible enough so that programs can be developed to do just that. Whether in fact that will be a recommendation of the program and service delivery review, I don't know at this point. Potentially, that review could come back and suggest there's a void here in business programs and this is something that needs to be addressed. That is fully the range and scope of this program review and those are issues that I expect it to touch on. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess I would hope that we would be able to set this new entity up so that it can absorb those kinds of programs. We haven't had a great run of luck in the last little while. We have had difficulty with two of our diamond cutting shops, had difficulty with a major tourism venture that seemed to have landed in Cabinet's lap. They've become subject to political accountability and, therefore, the swirl of the political world, rather than an entity like this that has a more rigid and conventional framework. I am hoping to see more of our business ventures handled under this kind of framework than in the political realm.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to conclude with a comment more than a question. It is in very broad support of one of the parts of this bill. It's covered under clause 15 in the article programs. There is a framework there that choice for the corporation to delve into providing information and support for the public and the business community. This is something that has been sadly lacking in the Northwest Territories in the past few years. That is not, to my knowledge, an easily accessible, relevant kind of business support program for small business operators in the North, either those who want the trade of business or those who are already in it and could use some ongoing support. I think in many other jurisdictions in Canada, this kind of thing is managed by community-based colleges and perhaps even private sector training schools. Here in the Northwest Territories, we really have backed out of that. I don't know that our Aurora College network provides that sort of street level business support to small businesses.

In a previous life, Mr. Chairman, I worked for the Federal Business Development Bank on a small business training program that did exactly that. The federal agency made itself available on a walk-in basis to small businesses to provide them real hard-nosed, upfront support for their businesses. I would welcome, and I think the whole business community would welcome, a business initiative by this government to provide that kind of frontline, real practical nuts and bolts, support to small businesses. I would also like to suggest, Mr. Chairman, that this kind of stuff does not need to be built from scratch. We don't have to reinvent this wheel. There are many very successful models for doing this. What we need is a delivery vehicle. I am pleased to see this corporation has the ability to do that and I would look forward to it as a priority for this corporation to undertake.

As I say, Mr. Chairman, not a question there but a suggestion and a comment. Thanks.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

I certainly appreciate the support around that initiative and I would agree with the Minister that that is critical. It's not just about lending organizations money. It's about helping them to develop and build their capacity in order to run successful businesses. We need to do more of this. We need, through the BDF or through RWED, regional staff and some capacity and ability to do this now. We need to continue to build on that and develop that. If you look at the partnership between our government and the federal government around business service centre delivery, there is no reason that that couldn't come under the new BDIC and be incorporated. I think this speaks to the flexibility and the breadth of this legislation to be able to tackle a wide range of issues and better respond to our priorities as a government. I think that certainly should be one and I agree with the Member. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. General comments. Next I have Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In terms of the bill, I want to ask him did the department do some consultation with the Sahtu Settlement Tribal Council in terms of the agreement and economic measures or any economic development programming that the tribal council shall be consulted? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Bell.

We are going to check that and see if we can get that level of detail as to whether or not the SSTC was directly consulted. I know there was consultation in the Sahtu in various different stages. The Business Program Review Committee went to every region of the Northwest Territories to talk about the future development of an organization to better meet their needs, but, as I indicated, people on the ground in Sahtu communities are not going to see a drastic change in the program delivery. It's going to be status quo with the ability to evolve and change now as Sahtu priorities change and as Sahtu priorities are better able to take on program and service delivery. I think that speaks to how effective this organization can be going forward. So if we were going to make major changes to some of our current or existing business programs, then we certainly would go to SSTC and consult as per the requirement and economic measures chapter. In this case, there isn't that level of individual or specific business program change. I will certainly find out.

On the Business Program Review Committee that recommended much of this change, there were a number of people. I indicated there were reps from the BCC, from Community Futures, from the Dev Corp and from RWED. Also, there were an additional two representatives added throughout that process and one of them was Danny Gaudet from Deline who had a major involvement in the work of this committee and you can see their stamp all over their legislation. That's what really has driven this legislation. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Bell.

Thank you. I certainly agree with the Member that if we were making changes to the programs, we would be required to talk to SSTC because we would have to say these programs are significantly changing and that's going to affect program delivery in your region, it's going to affect your beneficiaries and the people of the Sahtu and go out for consultation. What we are doing is changing this legislation to future enable change and evolution. When that change and evolution comes, we will have to sit down with that organization. I think at this point, it's the legislative change that will enable that future change in terms of programming. That's where that level of consultation would come in, I believe. I thank the Member. It's a very important question and an important distinction to make. Thank you.