Thank you. If I wasn't clear in my earlier response, I just want to be clear that the CEO is an executive manager who works for the board and reports to the board. The board, of course, reports to the Minister. So that is right now the dual reporting relationships where the CEO reports directly to the Minister and to the board that is the problem and the confusion, and that's what we've sought to correct. I think we've done that with this new direct reporting relationship. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks, Mr. Minister, for the clarification. The other question I wanted to ask is what will the communities see that's different now with a new act coming into force in terms of how they do business, especially in the smaller regions? There is a lot of discussion in terms of the resource development happening down the Mackenzie Valley. New business opportunities are being looked at, people are looking at getting into small and big business, joint ventures. What would this Business Development and Investment Corporation do for the people there? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Bell.

I want to assure the Member that at day one, if you will, at April 1st, the changeover date, all existing programs will still be offered in the region. So people who are currently served by the BCC or RWED will now be served by BDIC, but the programs will be the same. We wanted to make sure that there was a smooth transition, that people's files weren't jeopardized and that their service was continuous and effective and we thought that this was the best way to do it. But in the

future -- and I spoke to this in my opening comments -- this new legislation, this new organization can be much more flexible. There won't be so much prescribed in legislation and we believe that as communities and as regions are ready, there will now be the ability for communities to take over much of this programming and it will happen at a pace that will be different by community and by region and will only happen when regions are ready for it. I believe that as claims are settled and self-government is a reality in regions, mechanisms will evolve and our programming has to evolve with it. The existing structure was not going to be conducive to that. So I think we'll see some changes in organizations going forward. But, as I've said, it won't be the same in every organization, it will be different, depending on the region or community's abilities and desires. But you can imagine that currently as RWED will be contracted to buy the BCC to deliver programs and services in certain regions, in future that could be a community development organization. That is one of the benefits of this new legislation that is enabling in that manner. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I like what the Minister said before in terms of a one-stop shopping centre for people in the regions. They have the opportunity to do their business in one location and I also wanted to allude to the makeup of the board and the allocation of funding that will be available to the public. Just distributing the funds to the different regions or initiatives that are going to come forward to the board, that there is some fair and equitable form that would not see other regions hurt or suffering in terms of not jumping at every opportunity that comes before them, that there is some money that's going to be there for the regions. I'm not too sure if the makeup of the board is going to be regionally. Again, it's the first time; however, I like what I'm hearing and I think it's a good step. I'm just waiting to see how it unfolds. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Bell.

Of course, there will be regional representation on the board and so regional input will be continuous, but I agree that this has got to be equitable across regions and, currently, there is a formula for how the funds are distributed and that will be maintained in the short run going forward. I would like to see additional funds be available for business development, but I'm sure the Member can appreciate it has been difficult to go to Cabinet to talk about additional funding when, admittedly, our own delivery and mechanism was not set up to be as effective as it possibly could be. You would see money being lapsed in certain programs and areas, because there wasn't a sales job done on those programs, there wasn't an understanding that that programming money was available. So the obvious comment would be that you need to do a better job with the money that you have, and I think what we're trying to do is demonstrate that we can do that. That will make it much easier to go back and make the case, make the compelling argument for more money and economic development and then be able to roll that out in the regions. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, my last short question is does this Business Development and Investment Corporation support the traditional economics of the smaller communities, such as the trappers that need money in terms of assisting them with their economy in terms of the selling of the furs? I wanted to ask that question. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Bell.

I would say without hesitation that it absolutely does because it reflects the priorities of this government, and the BDIC will be directed to deliver on the priorities of this government. One of those is to have an effective diversified economy. The Member knows how important the traditional economy is to our government and in addition there are other programs to support those activities. Those will not be lost, those will not be diminished, we're not looking to supplant those with this new organization. So I assure the Member that it will reflect the priorities of this government and it will be tasked to ensure that it does. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. General comments. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a few comments and I know the Minister is well aware of some of the concerns that I had during the process bringing this bill forward. So I'll keep my comments fairly brief. Obviously, I'm in support of the bill as it is today. I have a few minor difficulties with portions of it. I don't agree that it goes far enough in terms of getting to the one-window service delivery model that was envisioned when this was first thought out and entered into. There's certainly a lot more that I think the department and the new BDIC, when it is formed, can do to try to ensure that we do get to that true one-window type of approach to delivery of business programs in this territory.

One of the key things for me in this was the regulations, and I know we've certainly got a commitment from the Minister that he'll try to involve the Governance and Economic Development committee as much as he can in the development of these regulations. I know they're going to come from the new board when it's put into place, but I think the earlier on in the process that the Minister involves the Regular Members who are on GED and the other Members, for that matter, in the rollout of these regulations, the better off everybody will be.

The other issue that I had quite a bit of concern with was the fact that in the new organization the employees are going to come over from the Development Corporation as public service employees and, in terms of strict transparency and accountability, I would prefer that the employees were outside the public service. But I can understand and I can appreciate the reasons that are in place today that would see them come over as members of the public service. So I voted against that clause in the bill when we went through the public hearing and looked at the bill clause by clause. I voted against that clause, but I'm not going to stand in the way of this proceeding because I think it is a step in the right direction. Most certainly it just gives us the opportunity to grow that much more. Under the current way things happen with the Development Corporation and the BCC, I don't think there's that room for growth and improvement like there is

under the new BDIC. So I certainly look forward to seeing what can happen.

I know I spoke, too, about duplication. Maybe even in the Minister's department, it will be the new ITI department and some of the overlap that the investment and economic analysis might have with positions that will be located in the BDIC. So things like that certainly have to be addressed. I understand that once the board has been chosen and the new president comes on board, some of these things can be addressed.

The way that we're going to identify the owners and locations of businesses under the new bill, Bill 16, I think is a drastic improvement over the way things have been and are today. Having that full disclosure and the transparency and accountability that comes with that, I think is a step in the right direction.

I think that's about all that I wanted to say. Again, I'm going to obviously support the bill. I know we've done a lot of work in trying to put this together to where it is today and I do look forward to it proceeding. But, again, I just wanted to make it known that if you look at the way the setup is today, we're not changing too much. Really if you look at it, we're not changing anything until the new board comes in, the new president comes in and some serious changes are made. This bill allows that to happen. So that's a good thing because the way things are right now, it isn't working the way that I would suppose it should. So thank you, Mr. Chairman, for allowing me to make those comments and I didn't really have a question to the Minister at this time. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Bell, would you like to comment?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank Mr. Ramsay for his valuable input through this process. We've spent a lot of time debating these issues back and forth. We don't always agree on all the points, but I think we have the same interest and that's in seeing effective program and service delivery rolled out and delivered in regions and that's exactly what Mr. Ramsay is talking about.

I'm having to be a little more patient because I think that one of the things that I recognized early when we talked about all the kinds of changes and all the kinds of things this new organization can do, was that if you try to bundle all of those things into an organizational change there's a lot of uncertainty, it's very difficult. The most effective way I felt for us to get this accomplished was to start with changing the headquarters' organization and let the regions flow from that. The last thing we wanted was people who currently access our program or have loans or grants with one of our organizations to be concerned and not know where their services would be coming from, not know who they spoke to about their loan, not know where to go. If there was wholesale change, it had the real potential to derail a lot of businesses that are now starting to pick up steam. So we want the same things and, as I've said, this is enabling legislation and the service delivery will evolve and will improve and I think that will start with the program and service review that the board undertakes.

I'll just touch on a couple of points because Mr. Ramsay has taken the time to lay them out. I do intend to involve committee in the development of new programs. Regs flow from those new programs and I think it's important and this is why we've had some discussion around it. I think I understand correctly that committee really wants to be involved in substantial changes or in new program development. I'm sure there are policies and organizations such as last person out the door turns off the coffee pot, and I don't think that's the kind of thing that the committee is interested in being bogged down with. We're talking about the real meat of our programs and service delivery and I appreciate that and I certainly intend to involve committee.

Some discussion around whether or not the employees were best suited in or out of the public service; I guess on balance, given the additional costs and delays that would have come from moving them outside of the public service, I chose to really advocate that the more important issue was how the CEO was selected. There's no denying that it's still government money funding this organization, and on this point I think that on balance this is the right decision, but I do appreciate that there are different points of view on this. So as I've said, the program and service review is forthcoming. I think it will allow us to lay out a lot of the issues that Mr. Ramsay has talked about, and I look forward to that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Mr. Minister, for those comments. Going forward, I am trying to understand what the long-term vision is for the subsidiaries of the Development Corporation. Some of them have been subsidiaries for years and years and years, let's say. Are we going to continue to subsidize their operation forever and a day, or is there a plan to try to make them self-sustaining at some point in time? What is the plan going forward? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Bell.

That certainly is the plan: to make them self-sustaining going forward. These subsidiaries are set up to create meaningful employment in communities but, as they are able to develop capacity and go it on their own, we intend to give that little extra push to make sure that that happens. That will free up additional monies for us to invest in newer start-ups. I think that is very important for us. We don't need all our capital tied up where traditional financing could come in. Where they are unable -- even after much patience and much work on our behalf -- to create employment with the money that we are giving the organization, then we will have to reconsider whether or not our investment isn't better spent elsewhere.

We certainly will have continual reviews of these organizations. It is important that we recognize that this is public money. There has got to be transparency, there has got to be accountability, but very importantly, as well, even for these organizations -- as Mr. Braden has quite accurately pointed out -- there are going to have to be performance measurements. We are going to have to have goals and objectives and we are going to have to measure these organizations by those and report on those. I expect that that will happen and we will have good discussion with committee around the various different details of these subsidiaries. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Ramsay, thank you. General comments. Next, I have Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Bell.