Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think it's important in the first year, in particular, of the transfer of responsibility of the program, there will be absolutely no change in the administration. The program will still be delivered through the partnerships that were established by the Housing Corporation. The LHOs will be the agencies that deliver the program and there is no decision that there would be a change to that sometime in the future. Obviously we are going to look at how the program is structured and how it's delivered, but any change is sometime down the road. We are not sure when that is going to take place. I am a little troubled by the Member's comments. This whole income security program includes the seniors' fuel subsidy, it includes student financial assistance. There are many people; in fact, the majority of people who collect income support actually work. A vast majority of them work. There is no shame in needing some assistance at some time in your life. That's something the program is there to accommodate. When the need is there, the government should be ready to step in and provide some assistance.

I would hope that we are not trying to say that somebody who comes to us for student financial assistance is worried because it's in the income security area. In fact, we think it's a great choice to become a student. We think that people who access the programming we offer are there because they are genuinely trying to get ahead.

I would just caution Members about saying there is some kind of stigma attached to asking for assistance, because we certainly don't say that about our students, we shouldn't be saying it about people who apply for the seniors' fuel subsidy and we shouldn't be saying it about people who access income support. The vast majority are only on income support for a short period of time and then they cycle through. The length of time on income support is not big, on average, in the Northwest Territories. In fact, the vast majority are not on income support full time.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I beg the Minister's pardon if I offended him in any way, but my immediate concern is that the Public Housing Program...I must have missed something because that's how I understood it to work, that the people currently getting mortgage assistance in that area would be going to ECE for subsidies. The Minister is telling me this is not the case. Why is the subsidy money in ECE, Mr. Chairman?

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The public housing subsidy money is being moved over as a first step in taking a look at the program. We thought it was better to tie all subsidies together in one area with the government. At some time in the future, we may look at splitting the department, so that you have the area that has the adult training and subsidies as one department and the early childhood and K to 12 being another department.

So this is the first step in restructuring government to put subsidies all together and allowing the Housing Corporation the opportunity to focus on a single mandate, and that being to deliver housing across the Northwest Territories. What will likely happen is that the program will change, so that the Housing Corporation collects market rents and we will be providing, through the LHOs or Education, Culture and Employment, income security workers, subsidies to people who need a hand to meet that market rent. But it's the public housing part that we are talking about and it's the straight subsidy programs. It's not the mortgage subsidies and that sort of thing.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That was my immediate concern; that we would have had a young couple, because of their salary level, I think the Mortgage Assistance Program, the way it operates they would pay $100 or $200 a month less. The way it was rolled out is while this family would have to go to ECE to get...Housing was going to charge them full market rates to get that reduction but, because of their salary level, they would have to go to ECE. So the Minister is saying this is not the case. Is that right, Mr. Chairman?

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One little comment before I answer the Member's question. When I got a mortgage, I got it at the bank and I still had to reveal the most minute details of my life to the banker. If you get a mortgage, you do have to declare an awful lot of your private information.

As I said, this is the first step in moving our subsidy programs into one area in government. In the first year, nobody is going to see a change. It's all going to be delivered through the LHOs; the same rules, the same standards, the same program. We are working with the standing committee to examine, based on this government's strategic plan, where we are going with the philosophical underpinning to our subsidies. Once we agree on that, then we will have to take a look at our programs to see whether they need to be restructured. It will take some time for that to happen. In my opening comments for the department, I said it will take a number of years for us to make changes. I am going to have to work closely with the Members of this House, the standing committees and the public as we look at making changes.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That concludes my comments with regard to income security. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Sorry for the confusion at the beginning. I have Mr. Hawkins next.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Speaking to the SFA grants specifically, would the Minister be able to tell me how many grants are withdrawn every year? If a student has been disqualified from their grants, for whatever reason, could the Minister tell me how many grants are withdrawn every year?

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. No, I can't. We don't have that information. We could endeavour to have it delivered to Mr. Hawkins tomorrow.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that, Mr. Minister. Could the Minister also agree to give me the number of how many appeals go to the appeals committee? I know there wouldn't be thousands. I assume there would be a few every year. Maybe he could give me the number every year for the last five years, please. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We will get that information to the Member. It's certainly not many. I think it's less than 50 since the inception of the appeals committee.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you. Could the Minister also provide the results of those appeals, whether they were upheld or overturned? I am not looking for further details, just whether the committee voted in favour of the student or not in favour. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We could certainly work on finding that information. This is very similar to the written question submitted by Mr. Villeneuve. He asked for some of the exact same information and some more detailed questions as well. So we are working on putting that together. All of the information will be provided to the House relatively soon.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Hawkins.