Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions this morning are for Mr. Bell, Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, on the area of the secondary diamond industry. Mr. Speaker, we are going back almost a decade now, before Mr. Bell's watch and before I was in this Assembly, where agreements were set up, socio-economic agreements were set up with diamond mines requiring them to integrate, to some extent, into our economy and our society here. One of the principle hopes/expectations of this government was that we could create a secondary cutting and polishing industry and, indeed, we've had some success there. But, Mr. Speaker, we've run into at least a recent situation where the anticipated supply and flow, and terms and conditions by which a diamond mine will sell rough product to a cutting and polishing industry has run into a little bit of rough weather.

Mr. Speaker, we are going to get at least another two diamond mines in the Northwest Territories, so we've got some work to do here if we are going to be able to continue this expectation. With the socio-economic agreements that we have in place today, is there anything in this agreement that requires or stipulates that diamond miners shall sell rough product to NWT-based cutting and polishing companies, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Our socio-economic agreements with the two existing mines do stipulate that they make rough diamonds available for secondary, value-added industries here in the NWT. They are doing that. In terms of details, it's very difficult for us, because they are business arrangements and we are not privy to all the details of these, it's difficult for us to assess these agreements. It's also very difficult to know what the cost of diamonds is on the open market because, of course, these are confidential agreements between parties. But in terms of our socio-economic agreements, it is stipulated that these mines provide access to rough to our local cutting and polishing industry. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Mr. Speaker, I guess here is where the nub of the issue is. As the Minister has outlined, we've set out the expectation, or the requirement, that these are sold, but we do not have the ability to monitor or, it would seem, enforce these conditions. So, therefore, the investment that we've made, and we can attest to some fairly severe losses and some risks already, we still have a considerable exposure, Mr. Speaker, based in loan guarantees to cutting and polishing plants, based on this expectation, but we have not negotiated our ability to enforce it. How are we going to close this gap, Mr. Speaker? How are we going to protect the continuing investment of the taxpayer in this vital industry?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think it's important to recognize when we talk about enforceability, there are many unknowns and there is risk involved in this. We think it's a risk that's worth taking. We think we are doing what we can to mitigate it and make sure we have some success in this industry. Essentially, two parties come together, a factory and the mine. They agree an assortment of goods be provided to that factory that best meets its needs. They come up with what they call a sample box and then the mine does what it can, does its best to match that sample at each site. Now, we don't know in future what the pipes that are being mined will look like, so it's entirely possible that what was once economic to cut and polish in the Northwest Territories, you could find a pipe that isn't. You could find that the next mine developed in the NWT is more similar to something like Argyle in Australia, where none of it would be fit for cutting and polishing here because of our high cost of labour. That isn't the case. We've been lucky. In terms of getting an ironclad agreement and contract in force that can take into account all the possible variations, it's very difficult, almost impossible to do. I think we are doing what we can to make sure that this industry is a success. I would say that with 150 people employed in this local industry, or thereabouts, it is a success. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Mr. Speaker, I am not going to be content to say we should be happy to have 150 people employed. I would like to see hundreds more engaged, because I think there is the opportunity. Mr. Speaker, what I am looking at right now is a requirement or an obligation, that I feel I have, and we have in this Assembly, to be held accountable for the investment that we have at risk and, to some extent, for the jobs that people are engaged in here.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister, in response to a question from Mr. Ramsay a little while ago, said, well, if the producers and polishers can't make a deal -- and paraphrasing

roughly here, Mr. Speaker -- then the government will just have to get involved. How are we going to be able to get involved in fixing this problem if we don't have an agreement that allows us to have a meaningful role, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Certainly, first of all, we have to understand the problem. I don't think we are entirely there yet. We are sitting down with the factory to talk about what they perceive as a premium being charged for the supply of the rough. They think they can do better on the open market in Antwerp. We are trying to understand exactly what the premium is. There is a bit of a difference of opinion, even within the factor, in terms of what that is. So they are trying to compare it to the open market in Antwerp. But one of the things we know about the way diamonds are sold is that, somebody in Antwerp who has a site pays for a parcel of goods with a wide range of goods. If you want to extract only one segment of those goods that might be fit for cutting and polishing in the Northwest Territories and attribute a value to it based on the overall package or parcel size, it is very difficult because they aren't sold that way.

What I have said is, if the factory can sit down and document the problem, explain the problem to BHP, lay out the evidence, as it were, I am more than happy to participate in that discussion and sit down with BHP. I think it is in BHP's interest, and the interest of all mines, to make sure this industry works here. I do think they are committed to this industry. I think they have to have an understanding of the challenge that this factory is facing. I am optimistic that they will sit down and work this through. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, further to my Member's statement, I would like to ask questions to the Minister of Finance. Yesterday, in answering my questions, other than what he said about inherent dislike, he seems to suggest, Mr. Speaker, that this is an idea. It could come down the pipes. We have to be ready for that. I have no problem with that. It could be a great deal. Imperial Oil, if they do decide to go with the pipeline -- and I hope they do -- they are going to need housing. They are going to have to buy it from somebody. They may buy it from ATCO. There will be housing left. If we can get advantage of that, that is great. But that is not the way the government is operating. This item is in the budget. The Minister has indicated that he is going to promote the pipeline workforce housing conversion. He has already stated that there is only one company that can do it. The Minister of the Housing Corporation stated this, and he has already stated in this House that he has been in negotiation with the federal government for them to give us $120 million so we can put in $110 million so we can work on this $297 million. Does he see any problem with him being so ahead of this thing without having given due regard to what is possible in the North among our own industries, labour force and what other options there might be? Would it not preclude getting us a really good deal at the end of the day? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The pipeline project, or the Mackenzie gas project's partnership with Imperial being one of those, is ultimately going to make a decision of what package they would go for. If they go with a traditional package of just supplying camp workforce housing without any conversion aspects, this is off the table. If we don't get support from the federal government, this is off the table. Part of the problem we face here is timelines, and commitments have to be made before they make a decision to go down the path of building a pipeline. The timing of it, the volume of it to get it done, we don't have factories in the Northwest Territories that can take on such a demand in such a short time frame. What we have been working on is what aspects of training can we have northerners put these packages together and then do the conversion afterwards, as well as the Minister of the Housing Corporation has talked about what portions of these camps can be built in the Northwest Territories. So there are those aspects.

But let's be clear. An opportunity here does exist. We recognize that and have been exploring that and putting the numbers together on the risks of going down this road and the positive solution that this could present to people of the Northwest Territories. As for myself in addressing it in the budget address, I think it is incumbent on ourselves here in the Northwest Territories, as the Government of the Northwest Territories, to look at this opportunity as a potential to dealing with the housing shortage we face across the North. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don't know sometimes if it is just wilful blindness or intentional neglect, or it is just really playing innocent. I have no idea. Mr. Speaker, let me just say that a budget document is really important. The markets go up and down on the basis of what a budget says. For the Minister to say that he is putting a concept in the budget and the Minister of Housing is going to negotiate and has been negotiating, I am telling you, if this goes through -- I hope it goes through. I don't know if this is the only option for Housing. I hope it does. -- then it is definitely going to put ATCO housing at the front line for Imperial to consider. Any company that comes with 297 million...

Do you have a question, Ms. Lee?

...that is going to give a leg up. In that case, I want to know if the Minister will consider asking Imperial Oil to leave a trailer behind for free, because they have to get rid of them somehow, and ask ATCO housing to give these for free because we are giving them, really, the lifetime opportunity. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, being that I've, although at a younger day in my life, saw what happened in the Beaufort-Delta when companies came up with their traditional workforce housing and left them in the North. They left them and they are used for warehouses and sometimes a camp house out in the bush, as we call it, up in the Delta. Is that what we want to be left with in communities? I don't think so. People don't like that concept. If we are going to take advantage of this, we are going to have to take advantages upfront and make some necessary investments. A company has approached us, approached the Housing Corporation, with a concept and, in fact, applied for a patent on that concept to make a conversion happen easier. We are working with that company, yes. If there are companies in the Northwest Territories that feel they have a product that they can supply, then they can, as well, work with the pipeline partners as well as working with the Housing Corporation.

Mr. Speaker, here in the Northwest Territories, we look right here in the city and see what development is happening when it comes to mobile homes in those areas. I think I can speak fairly clearly here that the majority of those units going up are not being manufactured in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister still has not answered that question. The Housing Corporation Minister stated that this is a brilliant concept by a great company. They are going to try to sell this into other provinces. So we are doing ATCO Novel a great favour. We are going to be the test case. It is going to work. It is going to put 1,400 housing units in the Delta, so why can we not get that for free? We are doing them a favour. Why are we giving them the money? Thank you.