Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Mr. Chairman, as I understand it, the current plan would see it phased in over about three years. It still has to be decided on by the federal government. There's been no firm decision. Of course we're lobbying against that, I can tell Members. At the very least, we are looking at the federal government approving a scheme that would see it phased in over three years, we would also want to see the isolated post allowance raised to take that into account. That's the case that we're making. So this has been an issue that has been on the radar and in the planning stages for some time. We haven't felt the brunt of it yet. We're hopeful that we won't get there, but the planning is that it would be over the next three years. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Braden.

Mr. Chairman, is this something that our sister territories, Yukon and Nunavut, or even the northern provinces are also in the same boat, or is this specific to "G" division in the NWT, Mr. Chairman?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Bell.

Mr. Chairman, it's my understanding that we would be hit the hardest by this. We have the most officers between the three territories and I understand that there is market housing for the most part, if my information is correct, available for officers in the Yukon. So the challenge is really one that, of course, Nunavut will face, as well, but the sheer number of officers that would be impacted it would be us first. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think this is something that will probably return over the course of the next few days or weeks in future sessions. I have a couple minutes left here. I wanted to explore, I think the Minister mentioned that recruiting and training adequate numbers of police officers is a challenge across the country. In the last two or three years, there was some expectation and some activity in the area of recruiting special constables. I don't know if that's the correct terminology. But there was a push, or an expectation, that in the NWT, or perhaps across the Arctic, Mr. Chairman, we could, especially among aboriginal communities, see more recruits in this area. Has there been any uptake on that? Mr. Chairman, I hope I'm on the right page. I'm taking a little bit of a flyer here, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. I was trying to look for the pages too, but if the Minister would like to respond. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, I think the RCMP is very supportive of such programs and they want to make sure they have a representative workforce. So programs like the Special Constables Program, which I think have been well received in the North in past, are things they're considering. I know they've conducted regional consultations this fall. They're compiling the information that has come from those consultations. But I think anecdotally we already know that people are very supportive of this. It's something that our government's been supportive of. Any of the programs that we've been able to access from the federal government where there are special monies earmarked for aboriginal policing strategies, for RCMP access programs, for special constables, we've always been supportive of and I can say, from meeting with my provincial and territorial colleagues, the other northern territories are also very supportive as well, as you can imagine, northern jurisdictions. So we have some common interests here in ensuring that this stays high on the federal government's

radar. We're very supportive of any monies that can be earmarked for either special constables or other programs that would see more aboriginal officers trained and more aboriginal officers in our communities. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Braden.

That's all. Thanks, for now, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much. My concern has been addressed, Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I want to ask the Minister exactly how many officers are not in communities, as we say, Colville Lake or I know Sachs for sure, That are not in communities. How are we addressing the needs to fulfill those communities with some form of RCMP presence? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I have indicated before, we have 13 communities in the North without detachments and they rely on coverage and service from larger centres. We do have and the RCMP have schedules worked out in terms of how often, outside of emergencies, of course, but how often they typically visit each community, whether or not they have the facilities in place to stay overnight, what the duration of the stay typically is, and it varies by community depending on, as I've indicated, the assets and support we have on the ground. We are, and it is our priority of this government, to see more adequate policing, more adequate coverage in those 13 communities that don't have dedicated detachments. So as I've spoken of previously, we have struck a working group between our department and the RCMP to talk about this. One key part of that, and a piece that I'm interesting in driving, is looking at some new detachments in a couple of communities in the most dire need. We've talked about Sachs Harbour and I think there are other communities that come to mind. Wrigley is another one that we've talked about. So there are some specific communities that I think really need detachments. That doesn't mean that we don't need a game plan for enhanced presence in all of our communities, specifically I would say those that are going to be heavily impacted by resource development. I'm hopeful that as we sit down to talk about how this $500 million socio-economic impact fund will be spent, that as the regional groups talk priorities, they will talk about policing and they will recognize that public safety is paramount. As we have these increased challenges, we've got to have increased resources and we've got to have the community come together to deal with this need. The RCMP are certainly prepared to play their part. It does come down to resourcing and I'm hoping that those committees will recognize the priority that we should be placing on public safety. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. I was hoping you would say nine or eight, but it's 13. The last time we heard, it was 11 communities. I'm not too sure how the RCMP goes through the process of determining how many members go into the communities. You have three that are very close around Yellowknife, Rae and Fort Providence and you have one up in Inuvik where there are new RCMP members. I don't know if it's just bad spots with more crimes or why you are having more RCMP in those communities. Now, you have 13 communities without detachments and you're...Of course, we know it's more we need them in our communities, but it just doesn't seem to make any sense where they're going to get more RCMP in Yellowknife, Rae and Providence and Inuvik, where you have 13 communities that have no RCMP members and you tie them to a detachment, you tie them to...It's easier in the larger communities.

Now you're run up on the issue with the federal government, you're saying that Public Works Canada is not going to house any more RCMP. It's going to be twice as hard now for the RCMP in the Northwest Territories. So you have another challenge on your hand, but I just shake my head. Thirteen communities without RCMP. You're putting six where they already have detachments. Well, it's too bad. You don't have the places, you don't have the detachment. I know you have mind-boggling how they come up with justification to put more members into these communities.

Now you're asking, you're hoping the communities with the $500 million fund, which is not very much when you divide it down the Mackenzie Valley, hoping that the communities will say, gee whiz, let's put some money into the RCMP public safety. That money, that's a territorial government issue. The federal government. Now you're putting the onus on the community to take some of that $500 million fund and put it towards the RCMP. You're offloading a prime, key essential service to the communities and you're hoping that we would say yes, it is a concern so we should put the money to public safety. You're tying the communities' hands again.

Get the RCMP and put them in the communities where they need them. It's going to come back up to the House again. Have some creative solutions. I mean, I heard somebody talk about special constables. Folks on these larger centres where you have them, I'm thinking maybe there's something that we don't know here. But you could have police again dedicated to Yellowknife, Rae, Fort Providence and Inuvik. They haven't even looked at the 13 communities that are without RCMP.

I'm having a hard time, Mr. Minister. I'm just really having a hard time. It's a passion of mine and I know communities like Colville Lake, Wrigley, Sachs Harbour, I wouldn't go any further because I don't have the exact list. The Members who live there, whole communities live there without RCMP members. So I'm having a hard time right now to rationalize how the department came up with a joint discussion with the RCMP to locate these RCMP members. For me, it's just, you have more RCMP, more crime in those locations. I don't know where the thinking is

sometimes that goes on how they allocate the services and resources to the communities.

I'm letting some of my frustration off, Mr. Minister, in terms of we're not seeing nothing in the communities. That's where you do get into the large centres/small centres debates about us against them. You can see a prime example. So I think it'll continue until we start seeing some changes and I think the communities are looking forward to this government to make some changes here.

They shouldn't be tying this $500 million. This shouldn't even be in the discussion. This $500 million fund shouldn't even be a part of the discussion. What if the pipeline doesn't go? What if the government, for some other reason, doesn't honour this commitment? It has nothing to do with this discussion. We should wait on this $500 million. It shouldn't be even a topic here.

So, Mr. Chairman, I want to ask how the RCMP determines where should the RCMP new members be located. Is it by crime? Is it by need? Is it by...They have to have some kind of a grid or some kind of a method to say, yes, Yellowknife needs another RCMP because there's more crack cocaine, or in the city of Yellowknife there's more dealers, or there's more impact on Rae or more potential, this is happening in the Providence area or in Inuvik. Because certainly it doesn't, I don't get it in terms of how they determine their allocation of RCMP members in the Northwest Territories. Now we have 13 communities. I'm going to stop there, Mr. Chairman, in terms of venting more frustration. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. I'm not too sure in regard to the $500 million fund he's talking about, but I think he'd like to know more about the allocation of the RCMP members. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member has put his finger on it in terms of how the RCMP allocate their resources. It is on the basis of need. It is on the basis of crime rate. We know that when we're going to create a detachment that we have to have two-member detachments. We can't have members working by themselves anymore. That is a requirement. That is just a reality for us. So when we talk about how the RCMP best locate their resources, that is something they have to consider. It's 13 communities. It hasn't gone up, but of course we do, part of the problem could be the confusion around what we consider a separate community for this purpose. The Hay River Reserve is a separate community when I refer to 13. Detah is a separate community when I refer to 13. So that may be the confusion between 11 and 13. As I look at these communities, that's what I'm thinking.

We talk about the best use of resources. I hope the Members can appreciate that if you take some of our smallest communities, Kakisa with 36 people, Jean Marie River with 70 people, Trout Lake with 80. If we set up a two-member detachment the reality is the RCMP, some of the downtime could be spent supporting other communities. So they've located them in other communities and then serviced these communities. I would like to see detachments in every single community across the North. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll be successful in getting those kind of resources either from the federal government, nor do I think our government could afford that.

My reference to the $500 million was simply to point out that there are pressures from development coming our way. Regional committees will have to make decisions about how they deal with those pressures and how they allocate those monies. We are and will provide, continue to provide a basic level of service. If there's a desire to enhance that, those committees I think will, I believe, have broad latitude as to how they do that. It could be that they choose to leave policing out of the mix. We will continue to do our utmost and we're not relying on that fund as some sort of a crutch. I'll continue to make the case to the federal government that they need to make sure we're provided the adequate resources. But if I'm going to be forthright about this, and honest, I would say that we will not be successful in seeing detachments in all of our communities and I don't think that would probably be the best use of those resources. It would be nice to have, but there are some communities that are going to rely on service, whether that's monthly or weekly or every six weeks. But hopefully we have the ability to have those RCMP officers stay on the ground in communities to provide service. I've been dealing with, for instance, in Tsiigehtchic the Minister for Housing has come up with what he believes is a solution that would allow the RCMP to have a residence so that RCMP officers could stay overnight as they come on tours from McPherson.

So we're doing a number of things to try to make sure we have more RCMP on the ground in our communities during weekends, during evenings, during off hours. We're looking at solutions like the policing approach we're taking with the ice road in Gameti, for the ice road season to try to restrict alcohol coming into the community. The bottom line is, these communities are opened up and as we have access, and we have ice roads, and we have more development, there is more access to alcohol and there is more pressure from development.

So I'm not suggesting that communities should spend their money in a certain way. Our government will have a seat at that table; will be involved in that discussion. Communities will have to come up with those decisions. I would suggest that they're going to be difficult decisions and we'll find out what the priorities are. It isn't an attempt to offload. I'll do my utmost to make sure that we're at the table clamouring for resources because I think we need them. We have unique challenges here.

But I appreciate the concerns of the Member. I know that he's very passionate in this area and is advocating for his communities and the other communities. What we want to do is get that number from 13 to come down. I think we have a chance here to move in the right direction and I'm going to see that we do that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.