Total activity, $110,000.

Total department, $110,000.

Does committee agree that the Legislative Assembly department has been concluded?

I'd like to thank Mr. Speaker and his staff for appearing before the Committee of the Whole. I'd like to ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort the witnesses out, please.

At this time we'll take a 15-minute break before we go on to the Housing Corp. Thank you.

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Thank you, committee. I would like to call Committee of the Whole back to order. When we left off with the NWT Housing Corporation, we had deferred it and I would now like to ask the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation if he would like to bring his witnesses back in.

Yes, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Does committee agree that we entertain the witnesses?

Thank you, committee. Mr. Minister, please bring in your witnesses please.

For the record, please introduce the witnesses that you have with you today.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, to my left I have Mr. Jeff Anderson, acting president of the NWT Housing Corporation; and to my right I have Gary McLean, director of policy and programs. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Welcome, witnesses, to the proceedings this afternoon. When we left off, committee, we were on page 8-7, department summary, NWT Housing Corporation, operations expenditure summary, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps you could offer a bit of guidance here. One aspect of the Housing Corporation's plan that I had requested a bit more information on and resulted in a deferral had to do with the market housing initiative. The corporation has since provided some information. I would like, Mr. Chairman, to see if I could ask a couple of questions about it. I am wondering if this is the place to do it, or do I need to ask permission to return to a certain page in the department, Mr. Chairman?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. I think what we will do is we will stay on this page. I think questions relative to the material we covered in the past can be included on this page. We won't seek committee's indulgence to return to previous pages, we will stick with 8-7 for questions. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Right; then to the market housing initiative, this is a two-year initiative, Mr. Chairman, undertaken by the Housing Corporation. Early in the life of this government, we were seeking ways, with some urgency, Mr. Chair, to find housing alternatives for essential workers, essential employees of the government or our authorities in the smaller communities, Mr. Chairman, those places where housing tends to be a major problem and is a real barrier to attracting and keeping employees. So especially for health care providers and teachers, Mr. Speaker, this was our need and the Housing Corporation got the assignment. Since then, it has purchased and installed -- in one, two, three, four, five, by my count here, it looks like about 11 communities, I may be off by one or two -- 44 units, Mr. Chairman. By the information the corporation provided from the first phase of 22 units going in, nine of them are occupied by essential workers and in the second phase, Mr. Chairman, five of the 22 units. So that's only 14 out of 44 units installed, Mr. Chairman, that actually met the initial target market of essential workers.

Mr. Chairman, it would seem to fall far short of what our thoughts were, or anticipated need here, and I am wondering, if the Minister could advise if the plan called for 44 units to house essential workers, how is it now that only 14 of them are actually occupied by this initial target market, Mr. Chairman?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Minister Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as we all know, the intention was to provide the opportunity to government employees first. The second option was to go with government program service delivery agencies in communities such as municipalities, band councils, anyone who provided programs and services in a community. The third option was to go to individuals who may be housing clients who have high incomes who would be able to get out of social housing, but be able to acquire one of these units through ownership. So it wasn't totally directed at people in regards to the professions, but we did allow an opportunity for getting them first right of refusal, so they have the first option going in. Then the second option, because of concerns raised by Members that we had too many vacant units, that we went to other agencies such as

government bodies in communities, hamlet councils, band councils, charter communities. Then the third option was to go to individuals who were providing services, but were in social housing who were paying high rents in social housing, to get them to move out of social housing, go into the Homeownership Program by acquiring these units. That's how they came up with these numbers. I know the Member talked about 145 units, but we do have Housing Corporation staff, like our local housing authorities, and we have people such as our maintainers, our finance people in our communities who are also in these units which are not classified as government individuals, but they still provide a unique service on behalf of the communities. So those people also are in there, but they are not showing up as government staff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Braden.

Mr. Chairman, I know these units have been a welcome option for some tenants, for some folks outside the initial target area. I guess where I am going at and going over history here now, but in terms of the accountability, why did the Housing Corporation decide to deliver 44 units when, obviously, now that we have had a couple of years to work this out, only 14 of them were actually filled by those essential workers, Mr. Chairman. It would seem that we really overshot the true need. Why, then, did the Housing Corporation invest far more money than the demand really warranted? In the meantime, of course, we need to fill these up. There is no sense at all having them empty, so we can go to other potential tenants like the Housing Corporation's own staff, GNWT employees, the private sector and still we note, Mr. Chairman, from the information provided, that 14 of the 44 units are vacant, 13 of them.

So it's not a great track record here, Mr. Chairman, of determining exactly what the size of the need is and then designing the service to suit the need. We really went overboard here. A lot of money tied up where it wasn't essential. This is the accountability that I am asking for. How was it that the service far exceeded what now is shown to be the need?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Minister Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would just like to make it clear to the Member, the first 22 units we put on the ground, we have one vacancy out of the first 22. The second 22 units that we put on the ground, because these were approved last year in last year's budget, we got most of them in through the barges/winter road. Out of that, we have a majority of the units going to be completed here shortly. There is a unit in Aklavik which is still being worked on. In Deline, they are hoping to have that completed and ready for occupancy March 31st. In Norman Wells, we are hoping to have the tenants in there by earlier this week and also in regards to Behchoko, Rae, two of the eight units are presently occupied but six units, because of the Tlicho agreement, have held up us getting these units on the ground. They are ready to go in and we are working out land arrangements. Now we have the development permits because we are now dealing with a new government.

So these units are online, coming on stream here shortly. So by saying we have that many units vacant, I have to agree with you, but it's because of logistical concerns of getting them on in place and having them ready for occupancy. We haven't completed the setup of these units. Because of that, that's why we don't have people in them. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.