Debates of Feb. 6th, 2006

This is page numbers 745 - 792 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was housing.

Topics

Members Present
Item 1: Prayer
Life-threatening Allergens In Schools
Mandate Of NWT Housing Corporation
Declining Caribou Population
Recruitment, Hiring And Retention Of Nurses
Name Change For Community Of Holman
Fuel Costs In Communities
Recognition Of Stella Yallee
Tu Nedhe Housing Issues
Support For Diamond Polishing Facilities
GNWT Support For New Federal Government
Condolences To Family Of Leana Rodgers
Recruitment, Hiring And Retention Of Nurses
Life-threatening Allergens In Schools
Support For Northern Diamond Polishing Facilities
Name Change For Holman
Meeting With Premier Danny Williams
Nahanni Butte Access Road
Support For Northern Diamond Polishing Facilities
Provision Of Safe And Affordable Housing By GNWT
Declining Caribou Populations
Housing Subsidy Program
Written Question 22-15(4): Edap Program
Written Question 23-15(4): Agency Nurses In The North
Written Question 24-15(4): Locum Nurses In The Nwt
Bill 19: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 2005-2006
Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act, No. 2
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Bill 13: An Act To Amend The Financial Administration Act
Bill 14: Public Airports Act
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Introduction
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The written answer that the Minister gave to my question says that this project will cost $297 million. CMHC contribution will be $119 million. I am assuming that the federal financing goes in there. GNWT contribution will be $116 million and the industry contribution will be $62 million. Mr. Chair, the Minister states that ATCO is the only one with the trademark of Novel, but that is not to say that that might be the only company in the world who could do some kind of a conversion. I don't know that. What I want to know is that this government has done due diligence to see that, if anybody is going to spend...I think any company, if a government goes and says, we have a $292 million project, what could you do with this? I am sure a company other than Novel would have thought of

something. ATCO might be the only one. I don't know that, but what I need to ask, as a public official, is that the Minister and the government has addressed that question, that they asked somebody about what could you do with $292 million. I would like to know if the Minister has asked any company unless, of course, he is going to tell me that ATCO is the only company in the world that could do this. I want to know if he could verify that. I would also like to know if the industry contribution of $62 million is coming from ATCO. Thank you.

Introduction
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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Calvin Pokiak

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Krutko.

Introduction
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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Just to make it clear on the contributions from ATCO, there is no contribution from ATCO. The money the Member mentions is that $26 million will be achieved through the selling of the units. So we sell the asset. We will sell enough to retain $26 million through private sales. The other thing is that we are talking here of some 1,400 houses for $230 million. Economically, you couldn't accomplish that in regards to stick-built construction wherein someone who lives on low income needs to be wanting to own their home can arrive at that. The number we are looking at is about $100,000 to $110,000 per unit. I don't think that you can go wrong with purchasing 1,400 units for $200 million. If that is the math that we are dealing with, then I would just like to point out again for the Member that there is no industry contribution. That is basically on the basis of sales. There was a letter that was sent. You can clarify that, Ms. Lee.

Introduction
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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Calvin Pokiak

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Next I have Mr. Ramsay.

Introduction
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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wanted to question the Minister a little bit further in terms of seniors' residences. I guess he mentioned earlier that there are now five seniors occupying the Tuk seniors' complex. Even though he did mention it in this reply to a written question that I had, I would like to see some historical evidence of occupancy in that seniors' complex in Tuktoyaktuk, as well as the other ones in Fort Resolution and Deline. It is important that we get that historical type of information.

I was wondering if the Minister could let me know if there are any other seniors' housing projects in the works at this time in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Introduction
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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Calvin Pokiak

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Introduction
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, we are working with a few seniors' societies to look at expanding their senior allocation. Aven's Centre is one of them. We are also working with the group out of Hay River to look at seniors' housing. Also, we can get the Member the historical allocations because we do have a lot of seniors' facilities in a lot of communities. Most of them have been transferred over or used for other uses such as public housing or market housing or whatnot. So I would like to give the Member that and provide him that information in regards to historical numbers. But as I say, right now we have some 416 people in seniors' houses in the Northwest Territories. But I can get more information for the Member on it, if he would like it, at the appropriate time.

Introduction
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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Calvin Pokiak

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Ramsay.

Introduction
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess I am more interested in the Housing Corporation's involvement in the Hay River seniors' complex. Maybe the Minister could let me know. To what extent is the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation involved in the project in Hay River? Thank you.

Introduction
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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Calvin Pokiak

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Introduction
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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I believe the Hay River seniors', we have land that we are allocating to the project. I think roughly the estimate on the land plus I think a bit of cash is $450,000 towards that project. Again, it is subject to different approvals and whatnot. But with the land and the allocations, it is roughly valued at about $450,000.

Introduction
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Calvin Pokiak

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Ramsay.

Introduction
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I can almost guess what the reason would be, but what is the Housing Corporation's primary reason for involving itself in this project? The reason I am going to say that, Mr. Chair, is I have seen the NWT Housing Corporation's involvement in seniors' complexes in the past in Tuk, Deline and Fort Resolution. In light of the failure to get any type of uptake from seniors living in those communities to live in these facilities, I am just wondering if the Minister can let me know or what can he do to assure Members of this House that there will be an uptake from seniors in Hay River to occupy this facility? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Introduction
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Calvin Pokiak

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Introduction
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will allow the president to respond to that.

Introduction
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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Calvin Pokiak

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Koe.

Introduction
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Koe

The complex or the project in Hay River is a coordinated effort with the Hay River Seniors' Society. They, in turn, are working with a local construction company. There is some ownership partnership arrangement between the seniors' society and the private company and also, as the Minister mentioned, we are looking at making a contribution under one of our programs where we contribute $25,000 a door, plus the land. We are looking at about a $450,000 contribution. We are looking at building 25 one-bedroom apartments.

The deal is still obviously under negotiation. There has been no agreement signed. The corporation or the groups in Hay River are very close to finalizing a cost. There has been a considerable amount of market assessment done by the groups in Hay River. There has been considerable amount of meetings between the seniors' society and ourselves in trying to make sure that the project is feasible. So there has been a lot of work, but, as of this moment, there's no signed agreement. We're waiting for a formal proposal with the formal agreements with, obviously, all of the protected clauses in place.

Introduction
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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Calvin Pokiak

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Mr. Ramsay.

Introduction
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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess given the past, you know, in terms of seniors' complexes and folks not moving in and not wanting to live in these things, I'm just wondering, could it be contingent upon the Housing Corporation working with the Hay River Seniors' Society to get a list? If there's going to be 25 units there, I think at the very least you should have 12 or 13 names of people that are going to sign up to live in these units because if you don't, there's no guarantee that they're going to be seniors' units. From what I understand, there were just 12 units that recently came online in Hay River, and I don't understand why we couldn't get names before we get out there and try to get something done. So I would like to ask the Minister, could it not be contingent upon the Minister or the Housing Corporation coming up with 12 or 13 clients and get a list of people before you rush out to build this new complex, because that never happened in the past and I'd like to see it happen? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Introduction
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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Calvin Pokiak

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Introduction
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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, it is a business deal and individuals will have to go to the bank for a large portion of this money and he will have to have a business case to do it. As part of that business case, we will have to have the client or, basically, a customer base to provide these 25 units. I believe that we are looking at that in regards to other places, which we have done that through our Supported Lease Program. I think that through this, again, it is not a completed deal yet. There's still a lot of legwork we have to go through and we have not signed off anything yet until we see the complete package before we are able to proceed. They do have to be able to prove to not only ourselves, but the bankers and other people to finance this arrangement. So, again, it's still in preliminary discussions and there is no final decision, but best-case scenario they will have to prove to us that they are able to access the bank financing along with our financing for the best business case. Thank you.

Introduction
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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Calvin Pokiak

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Ramsay.

Introduction
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

February 5th, 2006

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David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think the Minister and the president know what I'm getting at and that is that it's easy for somebody to go to the bank. If you've got the land and you've got I think he said $450,000 in your front pocket and you go into the bank, it's easy to get financing. Financing is the easy thing to do. Trying to come up with clients to occupy the 25 units, that's another story. I think you have a lot of work to do to try to find clients that you're going to put in there. I've got no problem with building a seniors' complex anywhere if the clients are there to fill it. I think that's what I'm trying to get at, and just before my time runs out, Mr. Chairman, I wanted to ask the Minister, typically in a seniors' complex like the one that's being proposed in Hay River, what is the cost of renting a unit in a complex like that, or what do you foresee the rent being in a room like that? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Introduction
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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Calvin Pokiak

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Introduction
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The proposal we've seen so far to date is it's $900 a month.