Mr. Chairman, the first part of the plan is to get out, as the Member has requested, and meet with all the clients. I think the first objective has to be to stop the growth in the arrears so we get that stopped and people paying their current amounts so that arrears aren't building. Once we're able to do that, then gradually collect more, a higher and higher percentage of those outstanding arrears. You're right; some of them have been there for 10 or more years and it may be that at some point this government is going to have to write off some of the old, old ones that are lost in history somewhere. But our intention is to meet all the clients, meet with the leaders. I know the president is going to Behchoko to meet with the people there on the 22nd of this month and it is a high priority for us to get this under control. I also want to thank the Social Programs committee for the advice and support they've given us as well in pointing out that we've got to get this under control. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Yes, the hard working Social Programs committee members, for the record.

Thank you, mahsi, Mr. Chair. I'd like to thank the Premier as a Minister in his department, especially with a new team member or leader, Jeff Polakoff, on addressing this issue because it has been brought up at the community level. They've heard it over and over in the communities throughout the North and I think with the transition of changes from traditional lifestyle to a modern lifestyle, it's a fast pace and there's been so many changes and people are finally adapting to payments. It wasn't there before, as you would know, when the people were living out on the land, but now they have to start paying. They're receptive to it, it's just a matter of it's a learning curve. So that's part of the reason why I've invited the department to come out to my community and explain in detail, in plain language detail, to community members of what's out there. I'd like to thank the department for that. More sort of a general statement, Mr. Chair. Mahsi.

Mahsi, Mr. Lafferty. I didn't hear a question there. We'll stay with general comments and next on the list I have Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Villeneuve.

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. I guess just to start off I think a lot of the questions that I was going to bring forward have already been asked by other Members, so I'll keep my questions brief. Again, I just want to thank the Minister and his staff, Jeff and Jeff, for providing us with it seems like good numbers, I guess, with the increase of 39

percent from the main estimates of last year. I just wanted to ask the Minister, I guess, he must have put a lot of thought into these nice acronyms that they have, the STEP, the HELP, the CARE, the PATH. Gee whiz, you know, that must have taken some real putting your heads together to come up with some housing acronyms that fit into these, but I like them anyway. They seem to be enlightening, I guess, for a lot of LHOs out there.

Just talking about the LHOs, I guess that's where a lot of my questions are going to be surrounding. I know there's always issues surrounding communication gaps between the LHOs and the headquarters, departments and the regional staff as to housing needs, housing processes, appeal processes and getting money from ECE or from the Housing Corp, and who's got the money and why isn't it at the LHO level. You know, issues like that. Updating our universal partnership agreements I think with the LHOs is way overdue. I think the ones that are in place now are pretty generic old documents that, as far as I can remember way back when I was with housing, they haven't changed it a bit.

I know that Mr. Polakoff is well aware that the Public Housing Steering Committee usually meets once or twice a year. They're comprised of managers, the LHOs, some of the ECE staff, Housing Corp staff to provide some recommendations to the Housing Corp, ECE and the government in general on how we can deliver housing more efficiently and effectively.

I just want maybe some general feedback on how seriously, like when this steering committee comes back with some recommendations to government, to the Housing Corp and to ECE on how we could make some positive changes in housing, are a lot of those recommendations really seriously put into what the Housing Corp wants to deliver over the course of the next year and why aren't those recommendations coming to our committee on Social Programs after their meetings are concluded? I know I got the minutes from the last couple of meetings that they had here in Yellowknife and there's a lot of good concerns and recommendations in there on how we can address some of these outstanding issues of arrears and market rent versus social housing and stuff. So are a lot of these recommendations every year put into this housing plan that we're going to deliver here for the next two to three years? I'll start with that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mahsi, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, the recommendations from the committees are taken very, very seriously. They are built into the corporation's work plan. There are people in the corporation who are assigned responsibility to carry through on those that are going to be acted upon. In fact, the number and the breadth of senior people who participate in the meetings has been broadened to make sure that our staff and the LHOs are on the same wavelength. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That's probably the biggest challenge in the delivery of housing, is ensuring that the LHOs and headquarters and the regional staff are all thinking on the same page when dealing with specific issues, especially with arrears and evictions and in LHO financing agreements with the GNWT and ECE. I just want to touch on one issue at the LHO level dealing with the vacancy rates that are applied to public housing rental units in the smaller communities. A vacancy rate of 6.1 percent I think is across the board in the NWT when setting rental rates for various public housing units. I just want to ask the Minister why is this vacancy rate of 6.1 being the bar, why hasn't it changed over the last number of years? I know vacancy rates are different all across the Territories. A lot of the people that live in public housing are transients, either be it in Yellowknife or some of the larger centres. So that raises the vacancy rates up for all of the smaller communities in which people usually remain in public housing. Therefore, we've got lower vacancy rates, but the rents reflect the vacancy rates in Yellowknife, which affect the smaller communities. Why does the department carry one rate territory wide as opposed to maybe a regional rate? Thank you.

Mahsi, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The 6.1 percent is the average across the Territories in terms of the number of vacant units. That one is calculated annually. So that's what it is now. Mr. Chairman, I'll make the note that that vacancy rate of course drives the rates that are charged for units in a different region. We noticed that the rates for this year compared to last year, if you take the same months, is about 1 percent less because of the savings that have been achieved through utilities and operating costs and so on. So the system is working for the benefit of renters.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Villeneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know that the government doesn't subsidize the LHOs for any vacant units in their communities. A vacancy is determined on a day-to-day basis on a sliding scale of some sort. Why did the vacancy rule change from 15 days per month to a daily basis per month for communities to receive funding? Thank you.

Mahsi, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will ask Jeff to answer.

---Laughter

...I am not familiar with.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Anderson.

Thank you, Mr. Anderson. Anything further, Mr. Villeneuve?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for that, Jeff. Just on another point just for getting some of the public housing units in the smaller communities, some of the older units, in some of my communities the transaction period from when the Housing Corporation says we are going to give you this unit for $1 and you are going to assume all the property tax and everything that goes along with homeownership, some people have been working with the Housing Corporation for upwards of five years to get this transaction completed. I am just wondering why it is taking so long for the Housing Corporation to get rid of or offload public housing units which is part of the mandate for the Housing Corporation. Thank you.

Mahsi, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am not sure why it is taking so long. It is taking a long time. It seems like it should be pretty straightforward to get an appraisal on the unit, and that determines the price. I am not sure what the delay is, whether they just can't agree on the price or whatever it may be. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Next on the list I have Mr. Yakeleya.