Thank you, Mr. Braden. Minister Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As the Member may recall, the Auditor General questioned the way accountability was being managed with the Housing Corporation and recommended that it be flowed through the Financial Management Board. So we've made that change to respond to the concerns by the Auditor General. So it will appear through the Financial Management Board. Thank you. Board Secretariat, to be exact. Thank you.

Thank you for that, Minister Handley. Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could the Premier assist us, or I'm sorry, could the Minister assist us then in explaining how does that assist committee in examining the corporation and in bringing our concerns forward? Is that sort of correctly done here and to what

extent can we vote and approve what we hear with the Minister before us? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It doesn't affect or change the way or the process we use before the committee here. This will still be the same way, but when it comes to the Auditor General's report, then that's where the change will be and the accountability will be done differently, but in terms of our process here it's the same as it was last year.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Braden.

Thank you. So I guess when we conclude our review of the Housing Corporation, Mr. Chair, there really will be nothing to sort of vote on or approve, the approval really then is vested under Financial Management Board Secretariat and, indeed, the Minister who will be before us then will be Mr. Roland. So are we going to be voting through Mr. Roland then to approve the Housing Corporation?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, the final sort of vote for the Housing Corporation budget will be through the Financial Management Board Secretariat through the Minister of Finance, that's correct.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Braden.

Sorry, Mr. Chair, these things get sometimes a little convoluted and difficult to connect all the dots or see what the logic is all about. I guess one of the challenges that committee has had then, or that I have had with the corporation's act and its accountabilities, it is quite removed from the level of scrutiny and approval that departments otherwise have when they come before the Assembly, Mr. Chairman. This is, in effect, a corporation, but it does not have a board of directors unlike our Power Corporation or our Business Development and Investment Corporation who carries some degree of accountability through appointments by the Legislative Assembly. The Housing Corporation, yes, arguably does have a Minister, but the levels of accountability to the public are I think quite shielded and this has been a difficulty. So I just want to be clear, Mr. Chairman, as we go through the numerous pages of the Housing Corporation, that our ability to affect change in this process now before us is virtually nil and that we are going through this for information and debate, but there is, in effect, no approval permitted for committee at this point. So perhaps our clerk or our staff can correct me, or the Minister and his staff, but I just want to be certain of what is before us and what is not before us, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think if I understand what Mr. Braden is saying, then essentially that's correct. We will go through this, we will approve page by page and section by section, but the final vote on the appropriation will be done when we do the Financial Management Board Secretariat with the Minister of Finance.

Mr. Chairman, I might also add that the two things that the Auditor General is looking at as part of the report that will be coming forward, hopefully in time for the May-June session, is governance and accountability. So at that point we'll have more recommendations from her. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Anything further, Mr. Braden?

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think the other members of committee or the report has highlighted it. There is one, I guess, residual program that the corporation undertook early in the life of this Assembly, and I believe it was called the market housing initiative. It was a program that I think the Legislature requested and this was to assist, especially the smaller more remote communities, Mr. Chair, who had difficulty attracting and keeping essential community workers, and we're especially looking here at teachers and health care workers. Mr. Chairman, over the course of two years, this program has caused some issues here in terms of its delivery, its implementation, its cost, value for money spent. I wanted to ask the Premier, I'm sorry, the Minister, if they could provide a snapshot of just how successful or otherwise was the market housing initiative. I believe it said they put some 44 units on the ground in a number of communities. Just how successful was it, Mr. Chairman, in supplying housing for essential education and health care workers in the smaller communities, Mr. Chairman?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Very quickly, in the first year we did a total of 22 units. Of those 22 units three were sold, three are under our Supported Lease Program and the others are rented. In the second year, we did a total of 20 units. Of those 20 units, there are two where there are technical problems, freeze-up-related problems we are dealing with. There's two that were delayed due to land issues and two were transferred over to the Supported Lease Program. All of the others are rented.

Mr. Chair, I might say that as we travel around the communities, we continue to hear about the need for more housing, particularly for teachers, for nurses, for other people employed in the communities and so on. So I think this program has worked well and there certainly is demand for it in some communities, not every community, but I think Fort Simpson was one of them where I heard that there was a considerable shortage in there. We couldn't even find a house for our regional director in that community. So there is a need for it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Staying with general comments, next on the list I have Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I would like to focus on the arrears that we're faced with, the $6 million figure that's been thrown around in our report and during our committee discussion. The Premier's opening remarks touch on a federal northern housing trust or affordable housing initiative, public housing rental subsidies, $32 million for 168 dwellings, 71 public housing

replacements and 97 homeownership units. These are all great initiatives that are coming forward, but at the same time there are huge arrears here that I think we, as a government, need to focus on. There's $6 million owing on arrears through the Housing Corporation. As I understand it correctly, the breakdown is about a third in my riding that's owing in that amount. We talked at length in the Social Programs committee about how we want the government to pursue this avenue. It's a huge arrears and it has a huge impact on certain individuals that do owe money for various reasons. So I would like to ask the Minister with respect to the $6 million in arrears, Mr. Chair, why are these arrears growing so rapidly? The Minister did say that his department is aware of it, when another Member asked about the arrears. Has the department met with these clients that owe money, a substantial amount of money, at the community, and develop an understanding between the client and the Housing Corporation? Was there or are there arrangements made between the parties to deal and resolve these issues of outstanding issues? That's my first question, Mr. Chair.

Mahsi, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. One of the initiatives under the new consolidated programs is for us to get out there and speak with the client. We have talked to a lot of them, not all of them, but our intention is to get out there to give them letters to remind them, to also do some education with them in terms of the necessity of paying their mortgage in the same way that they pay for their truck or other acquisitions they might have. So a lot of it I think is as a result of the transition from public housing into homeownership and getting people's minds around the responsibility there that it has to be dealt with in the same way as truck payments or anything else people have, because people sometimes think of housing as being the last thing they should pay for, they should pay for the other things first and that doesn't work very well.

One of the things that has made a big difference is where we have had good leadership from the community leaders to be able to explain this, to understand it, then we see the collections coming up. Our concern, of course, is the $6.7 million in arrears that's out there. But the biggest thing now is to work in education, financial planning, help people so we don't see this amount continue to grow and grow and grow and just get unmanageable. We're not quite as ruthless as some landlords might be in other parts of the world. We want to work with people. We understand people are not trying to avoid it, they just don't realize the responsibility. So we will continue our efforts to communicate with these people. We'll work with community leaders and work our way through this, but I think it's something we expected when we moved from public housing to homeownership. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, this outstanding $6.6 million has been growing for a number of years, ever since I got elected, even prior to that when I was on a local band council it was I guess at that time rising. So the Minister has indicated that the department has met with some clients, but what I would like to see is meet with all clients that owe money because we have to deal with this issue, it's a serious matter. At this time, Mr. Chair, my next question is, has the department earmarked their target for 2007-2008? What I'm trying to get at is, is there a plan to collect a certain percentage for this year and next year from the $6.6 million owing? Because I certainly don't want to see $8 million next year owing. So I would like to see a plan. I'm sure there is a plan, a worked on plan. What's the department's plan on collecting? Mahsi.