Page 2-87, Employee Services, Active Positions, information item.

Department of Human Resources, Activity

Summary, Employee Services, Active Positions, information item, (page 2-87) approved.

Everybody turn to page 2-51, Human Resources, Program Summary, Operation Expenditures Summary. Mr. Abernethy.

Mr.

Chair, I move that this

committee defer further consideration of the program summary for the Department of Human Resources at this time.

Motion is being

distributed. Motion is in order. To the motion.

Question is being called.

Motion carried.

With that, we will be deferring the Department of Human Resources. I’d like to thank the Minister and thank the witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, could you escort the witnesses out.

It was agreed earlier that we are going to move on to the Department of Justice. At this time I’d like to ask the Minister responsible for Justice if he has any opening comments in regard to departmental estimates. Mr. Jackson Lafferty.

Mahsi. Mr. Chair, I am pleased to present a Department of Justice Main Estimates for fiscal year 2008–2009. The Main Estimates propose a departmental Operation and Maintenance budget of $91.976 million and capital

funding of $1.69 million. The Operation and Maintenance budget is an increase of 4 per cent over last year’s Main Estimates. This consists primarily of forced growth costs for courts, policing in communities and a collective agreement. This also takes into account reduction and strategic investment in the department’s operations.

The government is moving to realign spending growth with revenue growth in order to stabilize our fiscal future and reinvest in the priorities of this Assembly. Many Justice areas have very little flexibility for change. Services must be provided under statute or are essential to the delivery of core programs. Our approach in preparing for this proposed budget was to find efficiencies where possible.

Two-thirds of our budget is spent on salaries for staff. As a result, the proposed reduction will result in some job losses. Clearly, when we are talking about our workforce, there are no easy choices to make. The proposed changes respond to the need to live within our means while maintaining the programs and services expected by our clients and the public.

I’d like to briefly outline the work of this department. There are six main key areas of activity.

1) Services to the government. The department

provides a range of legal services to the government. This work is almost always done in-house at a significantly lower cost than contracting private lawyers. Our staff lawyers provide legal advice to all ministers, departments and many public agencies. Legal translators prepare the French version of bills and regulations, as well as public materials for legal consideration. The $8.8 million budget for services to government also includes work such as financial services, improving supports to families in conflict and the policy research required to develop new legislation or improve programs and services.

2) Law enforcement. Just over $29 million has

been budgeted for law enforcement activities contracted to the RCMP. This Assembly has indicated that policing is a priority, especially policing of smaller communities. During the life of this Assembly, new detachments will be opened in three communities. I am proud to announce that the new detachment at Sachs Harbour became operational last week, and we will be providing services to residents who have not had a full-time police presence in 15 years.

Applause.

As a strategic initiative, the Main Estimates include $1 million in additional funding to the

RCMP to help cover the cost of new mandatory back-up policy.

3) Legal aid services. The Legal Aid services

board budget is approximately $5 million. That covers NWT’s share of the cost of operating three legal aid clinics in Yellowknife and Inuvik that provide legal services to NWT residents who cannot afford a lawyer. The board also provides court worker and public legal education programs. The Main Estimates include a reduction in funding for the Court Worker Program. The workload for all regions was assessed; we believe it can be handled more efficiently by moving to the same regional model that has been working well in the Sahtu, the Deh Cho, the Beaufort-Delta, the Gwich’in, and the South Slave regions. Four of the ten positions will be eliminated. The other six core workers will carry an equal workload while serving all NWT communities.

4) Courts. The department provides funding and

administrative support to the NWT courts. The total budget of $1.9 million covers the Justices of the Peace court program, the Territorial Court, the Supreme Court, the Court of Appeal, Court Library and reporters and the Treaty Court Registry. There has been significant forced growth in this area to cover the need for additional court staff in Hay River, Yellowknife and Inuvik, along with an increase in circuit travel to hold court in the communities. As you know, this tradition has been in place since Justice Assistance came into the North, and it’s not common in other parts of Canada.

5) Community Justice and Corrections. The

proposed Main Estimates include reductions in this area. It is one of the few areas of the Justice budget with flexibility.

This government is required to provide adult and young offender facilities for territorial offenders. However, the way we provide them is discretionary. We will continue to provide a full range of programming with greater efficiency by consolidating management in young offender programs. The government is proposing to close the Arctic Tern Young Offender Facility, restructure management in Yellowknife and Fort Smith, eliminate two program delivery officer positions at the North Slave Correctional Centre and eliminate the Community Justice special project fund.

There are no planned reductions to programming offered to offenders. We are committed to providing a wide range of programs that support rehabilitation. We will provide programs and services in the most cost-effective and appropriate way by using our existing staff more effectively. That includes

activities like sex offender treatment and addiction programming and a wilderness camp. In total, $33.8 million has been budgeted for adult and young offender facilities, probation, wilderness camps and costs of programs to support rehabilitation of offenders. This money also funds victim services, crime prevention and diversion programs in communities.

6) Services to the public. The $3.9 million budget

for services to the public includes funding for the Coroner’s Office, the Public Trustee, the Rental Office, Legal Registries, and the Maintenance Enforcement and family violence program.

In addition to these six activity areas, our Infrastructure Acquisition Plan includes $1.69 million in capital costs related to IT projects and minor renovations to facilities. This year the department is projecting an increase of revenue of $1.793 million. This is partly related to the federal Access to Justice Agreement for legal aid, but the majority of it is from renegotiated agreements to house federal offenders in our corrections centres.

Mahsi for the opportunity to provide an overview of the department’s 2008–2009 Main Estimates. I look forward to answering questions the members may have. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Jackson Lafferty. At this time I’d like to ask the Chair of the committee responsible for overseeing this department if they have any opening comments in regard to the committee’s review of this department.

Members considered the Draft Main Estimates for the Department of Justice on April 10, 2008. Committee would like to thank the Minister and his officials for appearing before the committee.

The committee noted expenditures of $91.976 million for operations expense and $1.69 million to be spent in capital projects for the fiscal year 2008–2009. Committee members offer the following comments on issues arising out of the review of the 2008–2009 Main Estimates.

Proposed Correctional Facilities and Renovations

Members of the Standing Committee on Social Programs could not reconcile closing the Arctic Tern Young Offenders Facility in Inuvik, a facility that only opened in 2002, while constructing a new territorial women’s correctional facility in Fort Smith. The committee does not dispute that the current Territorial Women’s Correctional Centre in Fort Smith is not suitable; it’s past its useful service life and needs to be replaced.

The committee also does not dispute that the Arctic Tern Young Offenders Facility has structural issues related to its foundation that may prove to be insurmountable and render the facility unsuitable for continued use as a correctional facility. It is also recognized that the facility has been severely underutilized since it opened because of changes in the way youth are sentenced. However, in the absence of an engineer’s report that clearly outlines costs, options and potential remediation solutions for the foundation issues, it would be irresponsible for the committee to endorse a plan that essentially writes off a purpose-built government asset like the Arctic Tern Young Offenders Facility. The Minister has informed committee that such an engineering report will be completed sometime this summer. Should that report bear out the department’s assertion that it may be uneconomical or unsafe for the Arctic Tern facility to continue as a correctional facility, the committee is prepared to support a supplementary appropriation for planning the replacement of the territorial women’s correctional facility.

This was not the reasoning behind the recommendation made by the committee to the Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board to eliminate the $300,000 in the infrastructure plans for the planning and replacement of the women’s correctional centre. The recommendation to delete was rejected by the FMB on the advice of the Department of Justice. If it is economically feasible and safe to continue using the Arctic Tern Young Offenders Facility as a correctional facility, committee believes the department will have to rationalize the construction of a new correctional facility. Options like renovating the River Ridge facility or Arctic Tern facility for use as a women’s correctional centre, or maybe just renovating the River Ridge facility for use as a women’s correctional centre and moving the current River Ridge cognitive program to Inuvik, or a combination of using Arctic Tern as a women’s facility and building a smaller facility in Fort Smith to address capacity issues, needs to be examined.

In the minds of committee members it is apparent that the department is committed to the closure of the Arctic Tern Young Offenders Facility as the easiest way to meet a significant portion of its contribution to the reduction exercise. Whatever happens, there are still going to be ongoing operations and maintenance costs and, in the worst case scenario, demolition costs for the Government of the NWT. The cost may not be borne by the Department of Justice, but it still would be a cost to the government.

Unlike the Department of Justice, the Standing Committee on Social Programs is not prepared to write off a $16 million purpose-built facility until it is patently clear that this is our only option. Nor are we prepared to support the construction of a

similarly priced facility until this determination has to be made.

Recommendation

The committee recommends that $320,000 for the Territorial Women’s Correctional Centre be deleted from the Infrastructure Acquisition plans for the Department of Justice.

Recommendation

The standing committee recommends that $613,000 be added to the operations budget for Corrections and Community Justice to continue operation of the Arctic Tern Young Offenders Facility.

Recommendation

The standing committee recommends that the Department of Justice undertake a facility review that will outline the present condition of existing correctional facilities and of the future space requirement for the correctional system.

At this time, Mr. Chairman, I would like to hand it over to my colleague Mr. Abernethy to continue.

Mr. Abernethy.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Court Workers

The department is proposing to delete four court workers in order to realize savings of $365,000 over two years. Statistics provided by the department seem to indicate that the caseload some of these court workers have is too low to justify their positions. Committee members note that the two positions are in smaller communities: one position in Fort Smith and one position in Yellowknife. It is obvious to committee members that if there has been an increase in the number of cases going to court there should have been a corresponding increase in the number of applications processed by the court workers. The statistics presented by the department seem to indicate the Court Worker Program model was flawed from its very beginning.

It was also noted that the budget also asks for ten positions in court services and one additional Territorial Court judge, for a total cost of $1.25 million under forced growth.

While the department managed to make a compelling case for the need for these two positions, the same cannot be said for the rationalization used to justify the reduction of services at the community level. Committee recommended that the department reconsider these reductions and look for other opportunities to utilize these court workers in the communities doing other things, such as supporting the activities of

Community Justice committees. In rejecting this recommendation, the department indicates the intransigence of embracing approaches that may be outside the current practices of the department. The response is that because the court workers help the accused in accessing legal aid, there would be a conflict of interest if they were to be involved in delivering victim services programs or assisting Community Justice committees.

It should be pointed out that any restorative justice program has two components to deal with, in that there is a victim and a perpetrator. It was obvious to the committee members that the department is not willing to look at other opportunities to utilize these positions at the community level. Members of the committee believe that court workers are the community’s vital link to the criminal justice system. When a court circuit comes to town, they are essentially strangers, and the court workers assist in ensuring that the accused show up so that the court time is not wasted. So on one hand the committee is being asked to support enhancing the ability of courts to deliver justice through hiring ten new positions and another Territorial Court judge, and on the other we are being asked to support the reduction of justice services at the community level.

Recommendation

The committee recommends that $91,000 be added to the operations expense for Corrections and Community Justice so that four court workers will continue employment and the department will have further opportunity to expand court workers’ duties and role in the communities.

I will ask my colleague Mr. Beaulieu to continue.

Ms. Bisaro.

Thank you.

Programming Staff at North Slave Correctional Centre.

Members of the committee were concerned to hear that the department was proposing to reduce programming staff at the North Slave Correctional Centre. The committee’s major concerns with this proposed reduction centred on inmate wellness and the ability of the remaining programming to meet the requirements of the federal Corrections Service. The department’s response indicates there will be no reduction in the types of programs offered or in the frequency of offering to inmates, and that existing staff will assume other duties. Committee members have difficulties in accepting the department’s assurances, as Members are always concerned when dedicated program delivery staff is eliminated and prevention programs are affected by budget considerations. It is with some reservation that the committee is prepared to accept the layoff of program delivery staff for offender programs.

Law Bursary Program

The department is proposing to eliminate the law bursary program over the next two years. This program gave some support to students while they

attended school and provided some opportunities for articling and summer employment. While it is sad to see the program end, the reality is that there has been no real net benefit to the NWT or the Government of the NWT, as the majority of recipients have not returned to the North to practise law.

The Student Financial Assistance program remains one of the most generous in Canada and is more than adequate in meeting the financial needs of students wishing to pursue the study of law. Mr. Chair, I would ask my colleague Mr. McLeod to continue.

Mr. Robert McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Paradoxes of Budget-Cutting Exercises for the Department of Justice

In the 2005–2006 Main Estimates, the Department of Justice proposed the elimination of court registries in Hay River and Inuvik. At the time, the department argued that the volume of work did not justify the positions or costs to keep the court registries facilities open in these two communities. The previous Standing Committee on Social Programs, in conjunction with the other Regular Members of the Assembly, successfully argued that there was a cost to making sure that justice was available and geographically accessible to all residents of the NWT, and the elimination of the court registries in Hay River and Inuvik was staved off.

Three fiscal years later the volume of work is such that the Department of Justice has asked for ten new positions in court services, of which the communities of Hay River and Inuvik will be getting two court officers each. Judging from the budget-cutting proposals put forward by the Department of Justice in this Main Estimate, it is obvious to Members that there is a trend in the department to put forward simple solutions involving the closure of facilities or the elimination of services to achieve the bulk of required cost savings rather than having to examine overall program-delivery efficiencies.

While this may make it easy to achieve the cost-cutting targets, it is obvious that without any long-term systematic approach to budget reduction exercises, any cost savings that are realized may result in increased costs to the department in future years. The Standing Committee on Social Programs will be looking for evidence of such an approach when we review the 2009–2012 business plans in September.

The South Slave Drug Interdiction Task Force

Communities south of Great Slave Lake have proposed the formation of a task force to interdict

drugs that are brought into the Northwest Territories on our highway system. As this is the primary method of transportation for drug dealers and is an opportunity to curtail the availability of drugs in communities that are farther north, the Standing Committee on Social Programs will be willing to support such an approach. We look forward to discussing this with the Minister during the review the 2009–2012 business plan.

At this time I’d like to ask the Minister of Justice if he will be bringing in any witnesses.

Yes, I will, Mr. Chair.

Does the committee agree that the Minister bring in his witnesses?

Sergeant-at-Arms, escort the witnesses in, please.

For the record, Mr. Minister, can you introduce your witnesses, please?

Mahsi. Mr. Chair, with me, to my immediate right, Mr. Donald Cooper, deputy minister of Justice. Also, to my left is Kim Schofield, director of finance. Mahsi.