All those against the motion, please rise. All those abstaining from the motion, please rise.

Those in favour of the motion, ten; those against the motion,

zero;

abstentions, six. Motion is carried.

Motion carried.

We are on page 7-23. Justice. Activity Summary, Legal Aid Services, Operations Expenditure Summary: $5.02 million. Mr. Abernethy.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’m just looking at the detail lines, and under Travel I see the budget in this area has gone up from $279,000 to $287,000.

I was under the understanding that the government was going to be working toward the reduction of travel expenses, and I’m curious as to why, in this section, the travel budget has gone up as opposed to down.

Minister of Justice, Mr. Lafferty.

Mr. Chair, with this area we had to realign our budget due to the fact of the high cost of travelling to our communities, with fuel prices going up. It does cost substantially more to travel to the communities on the court circuits for legal aid lawyers. Mahsi.

There has been a lot of discussion about travel and the fact that there are opportunities to get cheaper rates by buying in bulk. Did the department explore alternate methods of

purchasing cheaper airfare, therefore reducing their budget in this area?

Mr. Chair,

my

understanding is that it is all done by court circuits, either by whatever is on the schedule or by charter to the communities.

Mr. Chair, that’s not really an answer. Did you explore any opportunities through bulk tickets to find cheaper ways to buy airfare, therefore reducing the cost of travel within your department?

Mr. Chair, at this time we haven’t done the bulk order of the tickets to the communities. At the same time, we are at the exploration stage. That’s something we have been instructed to do by the government, as part of the reduction in travel. Our department will certainly look into that as well. Mahsi.

Next on the list I have Mr. Jacobson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Today I am here in strong support of the court worker positions in the communities. I believe these positions are an asset to the community and to the people they serve. It’s a vital link between the court parties coming into the communities and the people of the communities they are working in.

I got a letter from the Sevoliq Justice Committee in my community of Tuk that strongly recommends we keep these positions.

The bottom line: for the $91,000, this government…. For the cost of that, it’s unacceptable. They say these ladies are underutilized. I don’t think so. You have the court worker in my home community. She flies all over Beaufort-Delta assisting in court parties when people are on holidays and stuff. She does a really good job, and she’s good at what she does.

For the court party arriving into the community, the court staff say the court party will assist the locals, but there’s no trust there. We say we want to help our people. We’re not helping them. We’re going to be filling up the corrections facility here so fast, without these positions.

I really feel this should be re-looked at. The positions should be kept. Like I said, it’s like a make-work project. These positions — it’s easy to say we’ll cut them, but the bottom line is we’re going to be filling up the jail, the corrections facility here, so fast. Then we’re going to want to hire these positions back, probably next year.

We’re here to serve our people, even though we…. Democracy shouldn’t be calling the shots in regard to these positions. These positions in the Beaufort-

Delta, Yellowknife — there are two in Yellowknife and two in the Beaufort-Delta — are needed.

I really believe I’m here to make a difference, just like their positions in the communities: they’re there to help the people. There’s no trust link between the court parties and the local people.

I strongly recommend that we keep these positions and, Mr. Lafferty, that we can’t fail our people. I just want to say that.

Minister of Justice, Mr. Lafferty.

Mr. Chair, when our department was going through the proposed reduction, we identified how this government needs to be — as has been said over and over — effective and efficient government; and how our programs are delivered effectively and efficiently in the communities.

With the proposed reduction in the Member’s riding, as he indicated.... We looked at the overall court load in, let’s say, Tuktoyaktuk for example, which serves a community: 54 applications per year and eight days in court.

At the same time, another area, Fort McPherson, is serving two communities: 60 applications

and eight

courts a year.

Compare that, Mr. Chair, to Fort Simpson, serving six communities, with 150 applications per year.

So these three communities with two positions that have approximately 114 applications, versus 150 for one position…. That’s one area we looked at where…. This is the area we’ve highlighted.

We need to tighten our belt, I guess you can say, within our Justice Department to say: Where can we improve our program? Where can we have an efficient and effective staffing in our region, in the communities? You know, we talked about potential reducing of positions or eliminating positions with dates on that, the number of applications that come in.

Based on that, compared with other regions…. Even the Sahtu region is serving five communities. They have over 120 applications per year. Five communities versus three communities. So there’s the reason behind trying to cut down on the cost factor.

We want to be an efficient and effective government, as the Premier alluded to earlier at the beginning of the session. It was part of our mandate as a department to look into our department, in the regions, in Yellowknife, in headquarters, re-looking at the whole, overall structure. That’s part of the reason we came down to reducing or eliminating the proposed positions. Mahsi.

It’s pretty easy to say in regard to…. They cut that position. I know your stats say they’re pretty low. But I know that the court worker there attends court, assists all elders when needed in regard to any kind of legal paper or legal documentation; they do get help to fill out papers, I think, in all the duty travels she does do in the Beaufort-Delta.

I’d like to see if he could get that information, as well — all the duty travel she’s doing — and also re-profile that position to give her more work to do, I guess, to make that position more viable for this government. I really think this should be relooked at.

Mr. Chair, we can certainly bring forward some of the information on those stats, what we have within our Justice Department.

I guess what we’re proposing is to serve these communities out of Inuvik. I think it will be more cost-effective having a position out of Inuvik to serve Tuktoyaktuk. That’s what we’re discussing here today.

I think the public needs to be aware that the applications are coming in. They’re quite low. Half the time we get calls coming in and asking, What are these individuals doing half of their time? Part of the reason, I guess, we came down to these positions was just to reduce the cost of operating in that area. So servicing out of Inuvik will make viable sense. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess, for me, I’m pretty happy. That’s a good thing. My community of Tuk is not so busy in regard to the court docket. The biggest thing again…. Here we go, the small communities being picked on while the more regional centres are being accommodated.

Mr. Chair, it’s not a matter of regional versus small community. We, as a government, are accountable to the general public. This is public money. You need to be aware that we are cutting costs in certain areas to meet our efficient and effective government 16th Assembly

mandate. Mahsi.

Well, why would we be hiring ten extra staff in regard to having our new court party per se and not keep these four positions for $91,000 when you’re ready to spend $1.25 million?

Mr. Chair, we can certainly elaborate on that one and get through that page. With this proposed reduction in this area, again, it is part of the government’s mandate to be an effective and efficient government in the regions and also in the communities.

For myself, I think if we let these four positions go for a measly $91,000, we’re failing our people, we’re failing the system and we’re failing the justice system. I really think these should be reconsidered. Remember, Mr. Minister, you’re the man. You could call the shots. You could make this happen. Let’s get it done.

I am the man. I want to make some positive changes in the communities. I think I am on the right path. We are going to be saving $355,000 over a two-year period if we move on this new initiative.

Mr. Bromley.