Thanks, Ms. Bisaro. We’re on 6-20. If we’re done with 6-20, we can move to 6-21. Agreed?

Department of Health and Social Services,

Activity Summary, Program Delivery Support, Program Delivery Details: $31.363 million, approved.

We’re on 6-21, Activity Summary, Program Delivery Support, Grants and Contributions, Contributions: $14.521 million. Are there any questions? Ms. Bisaro.

It’s not a question but I do have a motion, Mr.

Chair. I move that the committee

strongly recommend the government take immediate action to reinstate funding in the amount of $210,000 for the proposed elimination of the Stanton Hospital Telehealth coordinator position and the associated contribution funding provided to the biomedical unit at Stanton Hospital under the Department of Health and Social Services under the Program Delivery Support activity.

Thank you,

Ms. Bisaro. A motion is on the floor and is being distributed. The motion has been distributed and is in order. To the motion, Ms. Bisaro.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We discussed this somewhat yesterday, but I think it needs to be reiterated; the points need to be made again. It’s important that we don’t reduce our Telehealth coordinator positions any more than they already have been. The department originally reduced these coordinators to one coordinator in Inuvik. I believe firmly that we need to have a coordinator position at Stanton as well as one at the hospital in Inuvik. I also believe the use of Telehealth will have an impact on the cost of medical travel for our residents. I think I said the other day I can’t quite believe the amount of money we spend on medical travel. I can only see that Telehealth, and the extension of Telehealth, is going to make inroads on this huge expense we have for medical travel and moving people around from communities to see doctors, for consults and so on.

The coordinator position is valuable in that it will encourage staff in health centres and regional hospitals to use the equipment more, to make it a standard in the way they operate, so that it simply becomes part of their daily work. I think that without a coordinator, without somebody to take the idea — the action — in hand and actually promote it; to visit people, encourage them and provide support to them; this is not going to go forward. I see that Telehealth and this particular program are going to be of benefit to us. It’s definitely going to reduce our costs in terms of medical travel, and I think it’s also going to make it better for people in the communities, in that they won’t have to be constantly travelling from a community to a larger centre to see a health specialist. So that said, this is why I’ve made that motion.

To the motion,

Mr. Abernethy.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’m going to be supporting this motion. I’ve heard a lot of the conversation. I’ve heard the responses from the department. At the end of the day, given our increasing costs and challenges around medical travel, I honestly believe Telehealth is going to be one of our solutions. It may not be utilized to the degree it should be now, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t work. I hear the department saying, basically, There are other people to run the equipment; we don’t need those people anymore.

Eighty per cent or more of the Telehealth that’s going on right now is going through Stanton. To take somebody out of Stanton who’s a dedicated champion — and I mean champion — somebody who can get out there and work with the doctors and nurses and provide training and encourage and motivate individuals to use this equipment…. The equipment will not be used to the degree and the extent that it should.

I understand there’s somebody in the department. You’ve said it over and over again — that that position is more of a territorial coordinator responsible for trying to get the infrastructure and technology out to the territory as a whole, getting it into the communities, encouraging and motivating organizations such as the RNANTNU as well as the Medical Association to buy into the product. It is a valuable position as well. But at the end of the day, you need a champion on-site in Stanton, where turnover among staff — nurses, doctors, PTs, OTs, all those types of positions who can and should be utilizing the equipment — is high. You need to ensure they are trained, prepared and understand the benefits and value that such equipment and technology will provide. Without that on-site champion where, once again, 80 per cent or more of the Telehealth occurs, it will peter out. It will not have the strength, and it will not have the effect.

Currently out there, there are all sorts of things running through Stanton and the Telehealth unit. We’re doing discharge planning. We’re doing mental health consults. We’re doing physiotherapy consults. We’re doing physiotherapy follow-ups, occupational health and therapy consults and follow-ups, perinatal consults, genetic counselling, pediatric home nutrition support. We’re doing pediatric surgery follow-ups. We’re doing patient diabetes education consults and follow-up, family visitations, family meetings, clinics, consults with physicians.

There is a significant amount of training. Some of the associations who are out there are working with our champion on-site to coordinate training for associations — the Physiotherapy Association,

the

nursing association,

the stork program, which is

being delivered in many of the other authorities and hospitals around the Territories. They are working with the champion we have at Stanton to ensure the equipment is up and running. There are meetings going on; there are educational opportunities that exist. All of these things need somebody to help all these lay people use this equipment efficiently and effectively.

I’m supporting this motion because I believe getting rid of the champion at Stanton, who should be supporting the entire southern half of the Northwest Territories.... We’ve already agreed this is an important position, and you have reinstated the position in Inuvik to take care of the northern part of the territory, to do similar things to what I’ve just described. To leave the southern half of the territory hanging without a champion who could provide the training, ensure the equipment at Stanton is up and running and support those people in other communities and other hospitals around the territory is a bit short-sighted, I believe. That’s why I’ll be supporting this motion. I think we need to keep our champions. I think we need to ensure we’re using this more than we’re currently using it and thereby reduce some of our medical travel costs.

Thank you,

Mr. Abernethy. Next on the list, I have Mr. Ramsay and Mr. Bromley. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, will be supporting the motion that’s before us. I agree wholeheartedly with my colleague Mr. Abernethy and what he had to say, and I won’t go over everything. I did want to start off by saying that over the years — and it goes back probably about 11 or 12 years now — the government of the Northwest Territories has spent millions and millions of dollars in the area of Telehealth. It’s a substantial investment the government has in this area. In my mind, we have to protect that investment. Just leaving it to its own devices without the champion, as Mr. Abernethy said, is a step backwards.

I think if we’re looking at the area of health care costs and rising costs in that area of our operation, it only makes sense that you would look to Telehealth as a way and means to cut back on costs. Why we would target...? You know, I never understood why we were targeting the position in Inuvik and the one at Stanton in the first place. I’m glad to hear the department has reconsidered the coordinator position in Inuvik. They should have, and I’m glad they’ve done that. But the one at Stanton is definitely necessary, and it was alluded to earlier. Eighty per cent of the work in Telehealth in the Northwest Territories goes through that hospital, and this position is much needed. When we’re trying to save money it makes no sense to be cutting an area where potentially — and it has a huge potential, Mr.

Chairman, to save this

government tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical travel.... Again, I just don’t understand the rationale that the government uses — or the department uses, for that matter.

To the motion,

Mr. Bromley.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I understood the reasoning the department presented on this. But I felt the evidence was weak, given the potential benefits of full uptake of the technology. I’m especially talking, also, about medical travel, which, given the cost of fuel and so on, is likely to soar. So I would encourage the department to put in place a really good monitoring effort and to document the uptake — the wide uptake of this technology and the savings to medical travel, especially if they really do believe it’s already accomplished here. Provide that evidence, and on that basis, I would see this as an opportunity for some early savings in the near future.

I’d like to make sure that’s in place because, again, savings on travel has the benefits of both dollar and environmental gains. I’d encourage the department to demonstrate fluency and wide uptake.

I don’t know if there are other speakers, but I’d like to request a recorded vote on this.

To the motion,

Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll be supporting this motion. In brief, I have some experience setting up a conference-call centre from when I used to work for the federal government. I remember that one of the reasons they did this was the money they could save in travel. And the immediate relationship they could build, in the sense of doing work, was great.

I see this as an extension of that sort of thinking, where they have these fantastic tools. We were able to get people who are sick and whatnot to be able to get that relationship built up with experts and to do that work.

Mr.

Chairman, that can only work with the

appropriate staff and the appropriate people in place to do this. It causes me some concern at this time to see this deleted. I fear we would be putting that system in jeopardy, or the system could be put at risk. It takes a while to build up these things. As has been cited by other members of this committee already, the concern is there that the fully operational.... The success of this could be put at risk, and I don’t want to see that.

Mr. Chairman, I’m just going to close by saying not much more can be said because it’s already been said. I would hope the government would reconsider this. If this is the way they want to go, by

reducing this area, I would need a little more evidence at this time. I can’t support that. That’s why I’ll be voting in favour of this motion.

To the motion, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman. I

appreciate the comments of the Members. For those Members who were not here, I have been committed to the.... When this debate was going on, about eight years ago, I remember when the Telehealth project idea came up as a new idea. I was a supporter of the Telehealth program. I believe it has a bright future in the North. I believe the North is particularly designed for the kind of services Telehealth provides.

At the same time, it will be very difficult for the department or for us to reinstate this funding if it means we have to take it from other positions that might be considered more essential. Now, we’re talking about choices and relative choices. As it was stated in our budget session here, the department went through 19 position reductions; eight of them came out of Directorate. Because all the reductions came from headquarters, it amounts to 12.5 per cent of the labour force. I’m not sure if we could reduce any other positions in that area.

Their suggestion is that if the coordinator position is not at Stanton this programming will come to a halt. I don’t think there is evidence to suggest that. I also don’t think there’s evidence to suggest medical travel expenses will go down because there is a Telehealth coordinator at Stanton. What we are trying to do is.... The Telehealth coordinator position at headquarters will be re-profiled, so that position should be the champion for this program. We understand that for the Beau-Del regions that person has to serve eight communities and that person will do more of the northern work.

As stated earlier, we have to make choices about how we could best use our resources so we continue to deliver the programs. If the work can be done by someone else, in some other way, then we should look at that. Now, a nursing job can’t be done by a non-nurse; social work can’t be done; doctors’ work can’t be done; physiotherapist, occupational therapist or any other medical and health work cannot be done by someone else. I think we have presented very good evidence to suggest the Telehealth program can continue and expand and be implemented without having a qualified Telehealth coordinator position. I don’t think there is any threat or any chance this program will be jeopardized in any way. We just have to find different ways of doing that.

I do appreciate the Member’s thoughts and comments on this, but I think we need to be mindful of the relative weight we have to put in. If this reinstating means I have to reduce a nurse position

or some other positions that cannot be done by somebody else, that would be a difficulty. But I will — we will — consider the motion, and we’ll have to judge them in relative terms.

To the motion.

Question is being called. I have been asked for a recorded vote. All those in favour, please rise.

All those against the motion, please rise. All those abstaining from the motion, please rise.

The vote is ten in favour, zero against, and seven abstentions.

Motion carried.

We’re on page 6-21, Program Delivery Support, Grants and Contributions, Contributions: $14.521 million.

Department of Health and Social Services,

Activity Summary, Program Delivery Support, Grants and Contributions, Contributions: $14.521 million, approved.

Information item, Active Positions, Program Delivery Support, page 6-22.

Department of Health and Social Services,

Activity Summary, Program Delivery Support, Active Positions, information item (page 6-22), approved.