I’ll callthe Committee

of the Whole back to order.

Before we took a break, we decided that we’d begin with the Department of

Aboriginal Affairs and then, following that, Public Works and Services. So at this time I’d like to ask the Minister responsible for Aboriginal Affairs if he has any comments. Premier Roland?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m pleased to present the 2008–2009 Main Estimates for the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, incorporating feedback provided by standing committees.

The Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations carries an important responsibility on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories. It is responsible for negotiating, implementing and monitoring land, resources and self-government agreements, including treaty land entitlements. It manages the GNWT’s relationship with the federal government and with provincial, territorial and aboriginal governments and circumpolar countries in all matters of intergovernmental significance, and it provides strategic advice on matters pertaining to federal-, provincial-, territorial-aboriginal relations.

By virtue of its mandate DAAIR leads or is directly involved in many of the strategic activities supporting the GNWT’s Managing This Land initiative. As Premier and Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, I carry the responsibility to represent and promote the interests of all NWT residents at aboriginal rights tables and through our intergovernmental relations with aboriginal, provincial, federal and territorial governments. This important task directly supports the priorities of the 16th Legislative Assembly.

In the future the department anticipates new negotiating tables for the Acho Dene Koe First Nation, supporting land resources and self-government negotiations, Nacho Nyak Dun First Nation transboundary negotiations, K'atlodeeche First Nation, Hay River Reserve treaty land entitlement negotiations, Fort Good Hope self-government negotiations and Dine Tha’

transboundary negotiations.

The GNWT, as a responsible and legitimate government, takes its responsibility to shape the governance system and the land and resource management regimes in the NWT very seriously. We talk of making decisions about the North in the North. So we will eventually need to be a party to these negotiations, instead of letting the federal government represent our interests in aboriginal rights negotiations.

The department is requesting $6.5 million in operating expenses for the 2008–2009 fiscal year. This represents a decrease of 13 per cent, or $950,000, from the 2007–2008 Main Estimates. The proposal includes expenditure reductions in the amount of $605,000, comprised of $330,000 in

savings from the elimination of position vacancies, $95,000 from reduced travel and contracted services across the department; and $180,000 reduction in contribution funding currently available to aboriginal governments.

As recommended by the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Infrastructure, an increase to the grants and contributions funding to aboriginal governments and organizations has been made. The now $350,000 fund will assist each regional aboriginal government with the cost of engaging in four multilateral meetings per year and one bilateral meeting per year with the Government of the Northwest Territories.

The sunset of the intergovernmental forum resources is in the amount of $500,000. This funding had been utilized to fund aboriginal government participation in intergovernmental initiatives and supplement the level of funding available to aboriginal governments and organizations for special events.

Transfers to other departments in the amount of $29,000 for adjustments to TSC chargebacks and mailroom salary costs. Forced-growth funding in the amount of $130,000 in support of collective bargaining increases and digital communications network upgrades. A one-time allocation of $54,000 from the supplementary reserve.

Mr. Chairman, that concludes my opening remarks. I’m prepared to answer questions committee members may have. Thank you.

At this time I’d like to ask the committee responsible for overseeing the department’s estimates if they have any comments. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. The committee met with the Minister and his officials on April 3, 2008, to consider the department’s Draft Main Estimates.

The department’s proposed operating budget for 2008–2009 is $6.2 million, a reduction of $1.12 million, or 15.12 per cent, from the 2007–2008 fiscal year.

Committee members offer the following comments on issues arising out of the review of the 2008–2009 Draft Main Estimates.

The Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations is responsible for negotiating and implementing land claims in self-government agreements on behalf of the government and residents of the Northwest Territories. It is also responsible for managing the government’s relationship with aboriginal, federal, provincial and territorial governments.

Proposed reductions in staff positions have the potential to seriously erode the department’s capacity to effectively meet its mandate.

Committee members expressed particular concern about the impact the reductions may have on claims and negotiations, the implementation of final agreements, and the government’s ability to effectively build and maintain relationships with aboriginal governments.

Given the scope of the proposed reductions to the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, and the important role it plays, the committee makes the following recommendation. The committee recommends that DAAIR be rolled back into the Department of Executive immediately, and a review of its mandate and function be undertaken to refocus its efforts on aboriginal government relations.

Mr.

Chairman, that concludes the committee’s

comments on DAAIR. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. At this time I’d like to ask the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs if he’ll be bringing any witnesses.

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Does the committee agree that the Minister brings in his witnesses?

Sergeant-at-Arms, escort the witnesses in.

Mr.

Roland, can you introduce your witnesses,

please?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Joining me at the table here to my left is Ms. Gabriela Sparling, deputy minister of Aboriginal and Intergovernmental Affairs. To my right is Mr.

Richard Robertson, chief financial adviser

within the Department of DAAIR.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Welcome, witnesses. General comments, Aboriginal Affairs. Mr. Abernethy.

I’m good.

General comments, Aboriginal Affairs. General comments? What is the wish of the committee? Detail. Can we turn to page 2-93? Program Summary, Operations Expenditure Summary: that is going to be deferred. We’ll move to the next page. Active Positions — By Regions, information item, page 2-94. Mr. Abernethy.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In looking at the active position numbers, I see that the department is going down by 11 positions. After

hearing the Minister’s comments, I see that there is going to be a whole lot of new negotiating going on in the future. I understand that a number of these positions that are being eliminated are negotiator or negotiator-related type positions. I’m wondering if I

can get the Minister to explain to me what

processes you used in order to determine which positions to eliminate. Were any of them vacant? Which ones were filled? And, given these new tables that have been coming around, will you have enough negotiators left over to actually do your part of the negotiation as required?

Minister of Aboriginal Affairs, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the process of looking at the reduction target that we had to work with within the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, we don’t have much flexibility. There are no program dollars available.

The department is about people and taking part at these tables. What we had to look at was ensuring that we were able to meet our obligations under a number of categories. Those are, for example, negotiations and pieces that we’re involved with today, to have representation there to ensure that we meet our obligation under the implementation agreements that we’re involved with between the parties. As well, we have to look at what operations we can take part in, going forward.

There were a number of vacancies that were in the area. In fact, six of the 11 positions are vacant. We’ve had to look at ways that we could re-profile some of the responsibilities to the remaining staff. For example, at the negotiation tables we will have key staff there, a negotiator and one other part of the team. There have been a number of different tables where we’ve had three people at the table, so we’re down to two. At a number of the tables these negotiators will and are already serving more than one table.

In the areas I discussed earlier in the opening comments about taking part in the new tables that are coming about, we are going to have to put a forced-growth submission in for the next budget year if the tables in a number of cases…especially in the case of the Fort Liard table, which seems to be moving along rather quickly. We’ve been observers at this point, but to take part, we’re going to have to come forward to the Assembly for increased revenue on that section. But we’re looking at how we do business, and revising it to a certain degree. We would be coming forward in ’09–10 through one of our strategic initiatives, the Managing This Land initiative, for changing our process and requiring more revenues to adapt.

Thank you for that information, Mr. Minister. I’m curious, given that…. I may have misunderstood, so just bear with me. With these additional tables, if you’re going to be going for a forced growth in ’09–10, and we’re already…. April, May, June — three months into this fiscal year, and by the time we give the employees their notice, we’ll be halfway through the fiscal year. So they’ll be gone after halfway through the fiscal year is up, and then we’ll be looking at bringing back people to do similar jobs at the beginning of ’09–10. Does laying off the individuals now make much sense if we know that we’re going to have to re-create them in six months? I don’t understand the value in six months’ worth of savings.

The process wouldn’t quite match up that way. Yes, the timing and so on looks like it would, but the positions that are actually targeted for reductions aren’t the chief negotiator positions. So we would end up having to deal with that outside this process anyway.

For example, we’re looking at a policy position, a communications position, an administrative position, financial planning, budget analyst position, communications again, an intergovernmental relations analyst, and two assistant lands negotiators are being targeted as well. So it’s not the chief negotiator piece we’ve organized so that we can represent every table that we are directly involved with. For any new additional tables we’ve had to inform Cabinet as we proceed, and inform Members. We would have to adapt, going forward, and recognize…. The one I just mentioned earlier seems to be moving along quicker than we’d anticipated, and we’re going to have to come forward and make a request to help us participate at that table. Going forward, though, there is a plan for the reorganization of the department, in formalizing our role with the aboriginal governments in the Northwest Territories. As we get into some of the detail, I’d be prepared to go into a little more of the detail of how we’re planning to do things differently as we go forward.

Thank you for clarifying that for me. When is the reorganization and the restructuring of the department going to occur?

Mr. Chairman, the first impact is dealing with this budget and its impact. As we go forward in the ’09–10 business plan, what we’re planning is a four-year cycle for this government, but the remainder of our three years, it would come forward. We would begin addressing it in ’09–10, so members will start seeing our plans for what we’re hoping to try to do before the fall time.

We’re on page 2-94. Active Positions. information item.

Department of Aboriginal Affairs and

Intergovernmental Relations, Program Summary, Active Positions — By Region, information item, approved.

Active Positions — Community Allocation, page 2-95.

Department of Aboriginal Affairs and

Intergovernmental Relations, Program Summary, Active Positions — Community Allocation, information item, approved.

Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, Operations Expenditure Summary: $6.5 million. Agreed?

Department of Aboriginal Affairs and

Intergovernmental Relations, Activity Summary, Operations Expenditure Summary: $6.5 million, approved.