This is page numbers 335 to 362 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was appropriation.

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Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I certainly want to start by endorsing the comments of Mrs. Groenewegen earlier in the report from the committee. I’m in full agreement with many of the issues raised there. I think I also see many opportunities to achieve cost reductions and so on through energy efficiency and local production of energy that creates revenue and so on.

Improving capital planning. I think that’s been discussed. It’s well known now that we need a tune-up there, and I heard the government is going to work on that.

I also hear from constituents who are employees and contractors with the government that there’s a lot of hoarding of O&M budgets to try and come in under budget, way under budget even, and so on. That is really at the cost of delivery of programs. So I think that’s one highlight, one heads-up, that I’d like to see our upper managers have in mind as we go forward: to be spending efficiently and so on in there.

I also have appreciated the information provided by the Minister in preliminary discussions that have got us to this point. I have increased my understanding and answered some of my questions along the way.

I’d really like to take this opportunity to speak positively for a second here on the decision to include, to this point, funding for the territorial dementia facility. Dementia is really an incredibly sad condition that can affect people across the Northwest Territories. It’s a very difficult disease and takes a terrible toll on families, often requiring 24-hour constant supervision and so on. Probably in the majority of cases this is being done by families and relatives with little support and often no respite for the caregivers. Eventually this takes a toll on the health of people doing this care, and in fact, people often end up sending these patients south at a very high expense, but it’s necessary for proper care and so on.

I would like to note that in this case we have a record of non-government organizations like the Yellowknife Association of Concerned Citizens for

Seniors and they are doing good work in the meantime and also doing work towards this facility, planning and so on, in conjunction with private enterprise in town and with the government to date. So I want to recognize that and note that this is the opportunity to take advantage of the work and dedication of many of those people and organizations.

I’d also note that one of the related sister facilities, if you will, the Aven Manor residential facility for elders, hosts residents from across the Northwest Territories, including, of course, Fort Good Hope and Tulita, Fort Resolution, Deline, and many others.

The dementia facility is incredibly expensive, and it’s expensive because it’s meeting a highly-specialized need. Currently, in the absence of such a facility, people who are suffering from dementia are housed at actually much greater cost, in many cases in hospitals and other inappropriate but very expensive, facilities.

So I’d just like to heartily endorse the decision to put some of our capital resources into that facility. I look forward to going over the bill in more detail here. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

I thank the Member for his words in this area and the interest he has for the facilities we have dealing with those seniors in the Northwest Territories — elders and working with the groups. I think the dementia facility is an example of a partnership between the government, NGOs and industry to make this possible. It’s that type of program — thinking outside the box — that allows this to happen. If we were to stick to our typical process, it would be much more problematic to do this and come up with a cost-effective way of doing this type of work.

Our experience in the North has been, when we look at areas of repatriation, that if we don’t have the facility in the North, we send people south for many of the needs that we can’t deliver in the Northwest Territories. Bringing them back to the Northwest Territories, where we’re building facilities and operating them, proves to be in most cases more expensive than doing it in other ways. But we do realize there’s a growing population. There are some of these services that we can bring back to the North, at least to one community or a few if that’s possible in the future. This project is one of those that aligns itself with a partnership with organizations, but it’s not without its challenges. Let’s put it that way. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

I’d like to thank the Minister of Finance, FMBS and the Premier for being here this afternoon to discuss the interim appropriation. I just have a few comments.

I don’t want to go over everything. I agree with much of what my colleagues have been saying, especially when it comes to energy efficiency and the capital planning process, which I certainly would endorse needs to be addressed. I also would strongly back up the opinion of my colleagues that Regular Members need to be included in the discussion on revamping the capital acquisition or infrastructure acquisition planning process here in the government of the Northwest Territories. We need to be at the table when that’s discussed. I’m not sure which vehicle that may take. I know we need to find a way to be included and not excluded from that process.

A couple of observations, I guess, if I could. I don’t want to go over everything, but the dementia facility here in Yellowknife is kind of out of the box in terms of a way of getting a piece of public infrastructure built. It’s a much-needed facility, and I echo the comments Mr. Bromley had earlier. We need to move forward with this much-needed piece of infrastructure.

We seem to be always spending money on this FIS system and software and other things associated with the Financial Information System of the government of the Northwest Territories. I’ve been around now for five years, and it seems to me that every year there’s a substantial amount of dollars, millions of dollars, being spent in this area of our operation. I have trouble understanding why we’re still getting reports that are printed on antiquated, out-of-date systems. During this last summer we got a copy of the contracts report over $5,000. It came to us in a format that they were using in the 1980s, it seems to me. Where are we spending this money on the Financial Information System?

I would agree, Mr. Chairman, that we need to spend the money, but when are we going to get the evidence that the money that we’re spending is actually making a difference and we are going to have access to financial information at the drop of a dime? I’m talking about specific, detailed information that right now, to be honest with you, Mr. Chairman, I don’t think we can just pull off just like that. I might be mistaken, but I don’t think I am. I really do believe we need to look at this area, especially in terms of getting the information. It’s going to be money well spent, but I’m just trying to understand why we’re spending all the money and we’re still having these reports that aren’t what I think a government the size of the Northwest Territories should be producing, Mr. Chairman.

I’d just be going over old ground if I continued on, Mr. Chairman, so with that, I’ll leave it at that.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

The capital infrastructure piece is one, yes, that we agree needs to be seriously looked at and to make some adjustments, possibly a complete revamping. For example,

instead of doing a combined O&M and capital infrastructure project, is it more effective if we separate the two so that contractors have enough advance time to bid on a program, to get materials sent up and delivered into those communities in a time frame that allows for summer construction, not winter construction? That review needs to happen.

We’ve got together the Cabinet Infrastructure Committee and we’ve got the correspondence from committee now requesting involvement in that, and we’ll review that.

The FIS system is something that is old. It is antiquated. In fact, much of the expenditures in past years have been trying to keep that system operational. That is why you see the large amount of dollars here to actually fully replace that system. It is a mainframe system, but it does not deal with the contracts report the Member has spoken about. That is still produced out of the Department of ITI with their systems. But as we proceed forward, many of our mainframe systems and those that are across departments are to ensure that the information fits into the FIS so that we can produce those reports in a timely fashion and be able to work with a newer system.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Do the Members agree that there are no further general comments and we can proceed? Are we agreed that we continue on with page 3 of the supplementary appropriation? Clause by clause of the interim appropriation?

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Honourable Members

Agreed.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Under detail, Schedule 1, Operations Expenditures, Legislative Assembly, appropriation authorized request: $4.927 million.

Schedule 1, Operations Expenditures,

Legislative Assembly, $4,927,000 approved.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Does everybody have their documents? We’re on tab 1, page 3, Schedule 1, Operations Expenditures, department number 2, Executive Offices, including Human Resources, Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, Financial Management Board Secretariat, $36 million, appropriation authorized request: $36,254,000.

Executive, $36,254,000 approved.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Finance, appropriation authorization request: $4,234,000.

Finance, $4,234,000 approved.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Municipal and

Community Affairs, appropriation authorization request: $59,258,000.

Municipal and Community Affairs, $59,258,000

approved.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Page 4. Mr. Ramsay.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Mr. Chairman, I just have a question. It’s just backing up a little bit to the department of the Executive, if we could go back there. I seek unanimous consent to go back to the department of the Executive.

Unanimous consent granted.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In looking at possible reductions, we’ve got the Department of Intergovernmental Relations, Aboriginal Affairs and the Department of Human Resources. Would the government not be wise to look at having one deputy minister of the Executive to oversee the operations of those departments, and not necessarily a deputy minister for each of those departments and everything else associated with that?

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Excuse me. Mr. Ramsay, could you repeat the last part of your sentence? Your mic went off.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Mr. Chairman, again, in an effort to reduce spending, I’m just wondering why we wouldn’t look at having one deputy minister for the department of the Executive. Then you wouldn’t require the DMs of the departments inside the department of the Executive, and you could do without ADMs and DMs at those levels as well — there and HR. Why don’t we do it with just one DM? That’s the question.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

The Minister Responsible for the FMBS, Mr. Roland.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr. Chairman, as we

highlighted with the interim appropriation, we’re proceeding for the status quo for the first three months. As we review how we need to budget in areas where we can save funding and look at the investments, we’ll follow through on the next phase of our work. Some of that is being looked at. A number of these areas….

The Member asked about combining a couple of secretaries for departments. That is something that can be reviewed when we talk about refocusing-government, as well as looking across departmental initiatives. Again, we look forward to the Members’ work that they’re putting together and their recommendations. As we get our work done and provide that to Members, we expect we’ll get some recommendations as well in what we’ve put together.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Mr. Chairman, I thank the Premier for his comments. As long as we’re not leaving any stone unturned, I suppose, and we’re looking at everything. That would be good. Thank you.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr. Chairman, the work that we’re undergoing for the 16th Assembly — looking

at dealing with the fiscal environment we’re in, knowing we need to cap the growth, reduce our overall expenditures, and try to find dollars for reinvestment — is going to cause us to look long and hard and deep at how we do business. That work is starting. Again, we’ll be working with Members and coming up with recommendations that we can bring forward to a budget process.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Minister. We can go back to page 4, Public Works and Services, Department of Public Works and Services, appropriation authority required: $21,029,000.

Public Works and Services, $21,029,000

approved.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Health and Social

Services, appropriation authority required: $76,349,000.

Health and Social Services, $76,349,000

approved.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Department of Justice, appropriation authority required: $23,371,000.

Justice, $23,371,000 approved.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Education, Culture and Employment, appropriation authority required…. Mr. Bromley.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, I just noted in the justification here the reasoning for the renovations to the Lahm Ridge Tower that…. Oh, sorry. I’m getting ahead of myself, Mr. Chairman. Excuse me.

Bill 1 Interim Appropriation Act, 2008-2009
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

We are under Education. So, Mr. Bromley, if you have a question under Education.