Debates of June 9th, 2008

This is page numbers 993 to 1058 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was education.

Topics

Oral Questions
Prayer
Minister’s Statement 57-16(20) Maximizing Opportunities
Minister’s Statement 58-16(2) Mining Week
Aboriginal Employment In GNWT Senior Management Positions
Proposed Women’s Correctional Facility In Fort Smith
Gravel Source For Trout Lake
Dempster Highway Road Conditions
Counselling Services In Lutselk’e
Mining Week 2008
Training Opportunities For Young Northerners
Public Service Employment Of Persons With Disabilities
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Question 286-16(2) Gravel Source For Trout Lake
Question 287-16(2) Counselling Services For Lutselk’e
Question 288-16(2) Dempster Highway Road Conditions
Question 289-16(2) Public Service Employment Of Persons With Disabilities
Question 290-16(2) Proposed Women’s Correctional Centre In Fort Smith
Question 291-16(2) Ekati Diamond Mine Tailings Spill
Question 292-16(2) Aboriginal Employment In GNWT Senior Management Positions
Question 293-16(2) Training Opportunities For Young Northerners
Question 294-16(2) Proposed Women’s Correctional Centre In Fort Smith
Question 295-16(2) Aboriginal Employment In GNWT Senior Management Positions
Question 296-16(2) RCMP Public Complaints Process
Question 297-16(2) Proposed Women’s Correctional Centre In Fort Smith
Question 298-16(2) Aboriginal Employment In GNWT Senior Management Positions
Question 19-16(2) Summer Students Hiring Process
Question 20-16(2) Wage Subsidy Program
Tabling of Documents
Bill 11 An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Main Estimates 2008–2009 Department Of Education, Culture And Employment
Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Committee Motion 35-16(2) ECE Modification To The Income Security Program Regarding Rent Increases (Committee Motion Carried)
Committee Motion 36-16(2) ECE Childcare Subsidy Program Reform (Committee Motion Carried)
Committee Motion 37-16(2) ECE Income Security Program Reform Regarding The Senior Home Heating Subsidy As Amended (Committee Motion As Amended Carried)
Committee Motion 38-16(2) To Defer Further Consideration Of The Department Of Education, Culture And Employment — Operations Expenditures (Committee Motion Carried)
Report of Committee of the Whole
Orders of the Day

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In looking at this section under Grants and Contributions, I see that $137.498 million is going for education authority contributions. Now, this isn't a giant increase from the previous year. This is the area I was talking about in my opening remarks or my comments or response to your opening remarks.

I've heard a lot of rumours and rumblings about what's going on in the individual education authorities. A lot of those comments have been

similar to those that we have been hearing out of the health authorities: that the budgets that have been set for this year aren't a significant growth, and as a result they're going to have to do a lot of downsizing or changing how they're delivering programs. Obviously, this doesn't show us any detail, and it doesn't show us the results of the budget for the authorities. So I'll just get to the point. Are these budgets that have been targeted for the authorities going to result in job losses down the road, future reductions, changes to programs, reduction in programs so that the district education authorities can actually continue to fund and operate? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Minister of Education, Mr. Lafferty.

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. With our Department of Education, Culture and Employment we gave contributions to educational authorities based on enrolment in the school years. As you know, there's been a decrease in enrolment, meaning there will be fewer teachers in some areas. But that's what we're faced with as challenges within our department. So that's what I think the Member is referring to: the impact on the region. There is impact throughout the North in the 33 communities that we serve. So yes, there are some impacts due to declining enrolment.

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Were the authorities given the same sort of direction that the departments were, which was to find reductions, to find areas to reduce spending, to increase efficiencies and all of those types of things?

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

That wasn't part of the process that we went through. Certainly there's going to be some relooking at the boards and agencies, under Mr. Miltenberger's leadership, the restructure of the boards and agencies. That's one area that will be focused on. So we haven't gone to the authorities to target the reductions.

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

So they weren't told to find reductions at this point in time. They're just told to live with what they're getting based on their enrolment levels.

Given that there is this work being done by Mr.

Miltenberger's group there, were they

encouraged in any way, shape or form to begin the process of finding some reductions within their system, streamlining, getting better value for the dollar?

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Devitt.

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Devitt

Mr. Chair, the boards are required to develop budgets that the boards approve and then submit to the Minister annually. The boards are

aware — because we fund on prior year enrolments — of the enrolment changes and the impact on their budget. But we haven't yet formally communicated the change due to the reduction in PTR associated with the trades initiative.

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Next on the list I have Ms. Bisaro.

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I need a better explanation, I guess, of that last answer. I don't quite understand when Mr. Devitt says that the change due to the PTR hasn't been communicated. It kind of goes to my previous question. If there are going to be 20 more education authority staff due to the reduction in the PTR, you're telling me that's not reflected in this number on page 8-18?

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Devitt.

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Devitt

Mr. Chair, the increase due to the trades initiative or reduction in PTR is included in this budget. Because it hasn't been passed by the House, we haven't actually formally communicated it to the boards, but they are aware of it now because it's public information. It is included in the numbers here.

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

I guess I need to know where the increase is, because I'm looking at Education Operations & Development, Schools, and we go from a Revised Main of $117 million to Main Estimates in ’08–09 of $115 million. So I don't see that as an increase.

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Devitt

Mr. Chair. There are a number of changes in these numbers. I’d have to actually go and list them, so if you could give me a second. They include the impact of the reduced enrolment, changes — increases — with average salary, the estimated impact of past collective agreement increases and the PTR reduction. The number that the Member is looking at is actually a combination of two school years’ amounts as well: the 2007–08 school year and the 2008–09 school year. So overall I think the decrease would be partially attributable to the decreased enrolment.

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

I accept the argument that decreased enrolment is obviously going to decrease the total amount that’s going to be granted and contributed to schools. But, again, like Mr.

Abernethy, I’m

concerned that all the education authorities are facing huge forced-growth costs, particularly due to fuel costs. I guess I would like some reassurance from the department that the forced growth of the education authorities has been considered in the funding that they’re going to be getting in ’08–09.

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Devitt

Mr. Chair, I’ll speak specifically to the fuel costs. We have a sufficient reserve in the contribution to cover past year increases due to utilities. But we fund boards at the end of the year

for utility increases based on actual expenditures. So the increases for the upcoming school year have not been built in to this amount yet.

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

My next question would be: in the school year starting in September of ’08, will the per capita funding for education authorities be the same amount as it is in this current school year, the one that ends in June of ’08? Thank you.

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Devitt

Mr. Chair, I don’t know the exact amount, but the answer is generally yes, if not a little higher.

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

I just have one other question in another vein. I mentioned in my opening remarks that I’m not sure how reducing the PTR is going to enhance trades training in every school in every education authority. I would wonder if the Minister of the department could give me an explanation as to how reducing the PTR for a school of, say, 50 or 100 children is going to allow them to enhance the trades training.

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Minister of Education.

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr.

Chair. The

PTR for the trades that we talked about here, reducing by 0.5 with additional staff for trades program.... The additional $500,000 in funding for trades, materials and supplies is also planned. Proportional to the increase in funding is also the cost for April and June of the 2007–2008 school year.

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Let’s see if I can rephrase this. If I work in a school that has 75 students in it, and I’m a principal of the school and I know that my PTR is going down by 0.5 for the upcoming school year, that’s probably not going to net me very much in terms of the PY. I’m asking the department if they can advise me how, as a principal, I’m supposed to increase the trades training in my school.

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

I’ll certainly get

Mr. Daniels to elaborate on that. The 0.5 we’re referring to here — that’s just one area. When we get into a new initiative, there’ll be other trades areas that we’ll be focusing on as well. This is just one initiative we’re carrying on from a previous initiative that was a ministerial directive. So if I can get Mr. Daniels to elaborate further.

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Daniels.

Committee Motion 34-16(2) To Reinstate $110,000 For The Coordinator Assessment And Evaluation Position, Department Of Education, Culture And Employment, Under The Education And Culture Activity (Committee Motion Carried)
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daniels

Thank you, Mr. Chair. There’ll be, likely, a variety of approaches the school and the District Education Authorities use to increase supports for the trades in the schools. In some cases, it might be dedicated teachers; in other cases, it might be sharing of teachers who provide delivery on a rotational basis.