Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister McLeod.

Mr. Chairman, this pertains to the area of dollars that we owe to the federal government.

Thank you, Minister McLeod. I didn’t see that. It does have to do with the federal government. Maybe the Minister can explain it to me. Some people have been asking, how is it that we are in debt to the federal government under this Canada Mortgage Agreement here? We always seem to be in debt. How is that? That is my question, Mr. Chairman.

I will have Mr. Anderson, who has a better grasp on the history on this, to explain why it is. Mr. Chairman, this amount here is the amount that we are repaying on our debt. The federal government also puts in $9 million that flows through us to repay the debt. Right now, as of April 1st , our debt will be at $66 million. Mr.

Anderson would be pleased to talk about the history.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Anderson.

Thank you, Mr. Anderson. Mr. Yakeleya.

When will the Government of the Northwest Territories be debt free from this loan or these loans that have been here for a bit? Do they have a forecast?

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister McLeod.

Mr. Chairman, we are anticipating that by 2038 we will no longer have the debt.

Mr. Chairman, this is the issue of dispute from our side of things, including other jurisdictions, that as the money falls off the table we would expect the federal government does realize this as a savings now to put it back into social housing. They have not agreed to do that at this point, so it is really affecting our ability to increase our housing stock. As I indicated to Mr. Bromley with this question, we are very much short of what we need in public housing. These are the dollars that allow us to operate our units. It is something that is going to be an increasing issue.

Today may not be such an urgent issue but as we get closer to 2038, this is very serious. I am just wondering within the life of this Assembly. Do we want to pass this on to the next Assembly here? Are there some things in play here that we should be aware of as MLAs in terms of urgency to get some movement with the federal government? I know the social housing issue -- he is right -- is going to be a big issue here in terms of what we are dealing with right now. Our hands are pretty well tied in terms of how we operate.

I don’t want to stay too long on this subject here. It does raise some red flags. Do we need to have a greater discussion at another table on this issue here? This is more of a comment. If the Minister has a reply for me, I will appreciate it. That will be my last question, Mr. Chairman.

I will certainly have to agree with the Member’s comments. It is an issue. It is not our issue. We are not alone in this. All jurisdictions across Canada are being treated the same. We have partnered up with all the other jurisdictions including other organizations in the South and in the other two territories to combine our forces and strengthen our arguments to the federal government. We have had, so far this year, one discussion on this issue. We intend to move forward with the new federal government to raise it and see if we can find a solution to this.

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Next on my list is Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have just a quick question on this page. I am wondering if the Housing Corporation and the government has given any thought to trying to take the Housing Corporation a little bit further away from government, a little bit more arm’s length. I have been thinking about this because housing is political. It is a political beast and constituents come to their MLAs and they want MLAs to intervene on their behalf whether it is arrears or other issues related to housing. I have given this some thought. It seems to me if you take the Housing Corporation as it is today and put it a little bit further away, would we be able to collect more arrears? Would we be able to address things without the political intervention that takes place? Whether we like it or not, it does happen. I’m not sure if the corporation itself has done any work at looking at maybe different models or ways in which it could operate under a different set of circumstances than currently exists today. That is the question I have, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Minister McLeod.

Mr. Chairman, that is an ongoing issue that we wrestle with. How do we keep the politics out of trying to deliver the units, the houses and the programs that are required in communities? We haven’t looked at trying to make it more arm’s length. I think that’s going to be very difficult at this point. But we have looked at trying to find solutions where our constituents are not running on a daily basis to the MLAs, so we are introducing more training and to our staff and in the communities. We are offering more communication so the people know what the programs are, know where the deadlines are going to be and what to expect. We are also introducing an appeals mechanism so that people that feel they were hard done by through an application or a program that they didn’t qualify for or for some reason whether they felt that somebody sat on the board and didn’t like them or was related to them, we could have an arm’s-length setup. Those things we are coming forward with this coming year.

As to having the Housing Corporation completely independent, I don’t know how that would work right now. I don’t have an answer for that because there are politicians from all walks of life that contact our offices for exemptions to programs for special recognition. I think it would be very difficult. Until we can find avenues where people are satisfied that they are being heard and have an independent system or analysis of their complaints, we are going to struggle with this issue.

I just wanted to put that out there. I don’t know if it would be a better way, but there has to be some way or avenue that the Housing Corporation could go down that would allow it to collect more in terms of arrears.

Another thing, too, while I have the floor and I won’t take the full 10 minutes, but the social housing in ECE is still an issue. I just got another phone call today from someone who is in big arrears to Housing or through ECE now. The issue is with ECE. It was never an issue before. The issue, as I see it, is through ECE. Regular Members have asked time and time again, revisit that decision. There are 14 positions that the government...It was the last government that hired the 14 positions at ECE to deliver the social housing. However, it seems to me, and other Members up and down this aisle will tell you, it’s just not working. We need to revisit that decision and the sooner, the better. Government’s looking for suggestions and this is a suggestion that I’ll throw out there. It’s one that used to work in the past. Now we’re spending one and a half million dollars more on something that is not working. We haven’t seen the evidence from ECE that would justify what they’re doing and how they’re doing it. There are problems out there. I think, just a suggestion, but we’ve got to, you know, if we want to save one and a half million dollars...I mean, nobody wants to...I’m not sure what would happen with the 14 employees that we’ve hired over there at ECE but something has to be done there because of all the decisions that have been made here, that one made by the last government was a decision that ranks right up there with one of the worst ones I’ve seen. We have an opportunity to correct it. This government has an opportunity to correct it.

I can’t speak for all the other Regular Members, but we’ve moved motions. I don’t know what else we have to do to tell the government that housing was doing it, they were doing a good job at it and they should be allowed to continue. Take it away from ECE. Obviously, they’re having some trouble and some difficulty in doing it. Thank you.

I believe it’s been three years now that this initiative to blend all the subsidy programs under one roof took place. We did hear the Members raise the issue. We have heard the concerns. We had recently met with ECE and we are working towards putting together an analysis or a review of how well it’s working. ECE has provided me with some information that I had not seen before, so I’m reviewing that and we will be getting together to decide how we will do a review. We are anticipating it would be an independent body that we would hire to do an analysis of it . Right now, that’s where we’re at.

We still have a little bit of work to do between the two departments, the Housing Corporation and the department, but we anticipate we will have that process in place this year fairly quick.

I know the Housing Corporation is under the purview of the EDI committee and ECE is under the Social Programs committee, but to my recollection the work, the review that was supposed to be done that the Minister is talking about, between both departments, we were supposed to get that work I think it was back in February. A year ago. We still haven’t got it, which would suggest to me that there are some problems there. I don’t know why we haven’t got it yet. I’m not on the Social Programs committee so maybe the Social Programs committee members that are here would know if that information has come forward.

The committee meetings that I have attended, I haven’t seen that review. Like I said, it’s a year later. I hope the work’s getting done, just like the next guy, but we have to get something on the table so that the government and the Regular Members can make a decision on what to do with it. If the problem still exists, we really have to take a look at it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, it’s the first time that I’m committing to do a review. I’ve been here seven months and I was not aware that there were other commitments made. I know ECE did some work that was worked on also by the Housing Corporation, but I don’t believe it’s the same review that the Member is talking about. It was on this process but more how to tweak the system that’s in place to make it more effective. What we’re talking about is doing a complete analysis along the same lines that the Member is referring to. We’d be glad to share this information with the committee. I’m not sure where the other information went. I think it went to Social Programs.

I just got a note from one of the Social Programs committee members and they’ve got a written update from ECE suggesting there are still some problems there. I know the two reviews are different.

I just wanted to say -- and I promised I wouldn’t use my 10 minutes but I’m coming close -- but the fact remains, I just want to give the Minister and the Housing Corporation some kudos. There’s been a lot of good work done in the time I’ve been here, in the Housing Corporation. I think the management has done a good job to turn things around. We are, I believe, headed in the right direction when it comes to housing. There are some hiccups, yes, and there are some things we need to take a look at like the Social Housing Policy, but overall, Mr. Chairman, I’m quite satisfied with the management

at the Housing Corporation and the Minister’s performance in that portfolio. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Next on my list is Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is something I was going to ask later on but I can’t really find a better place. I suppose this might be on the debt repayment; that might be the spot to do it. As we all know, we are dealing with a declining fund from CMHC. I’m wondering if the Housing Corporation has developed a strategy on how they’re going to address the issue of the loss of O and M dollars as the loan gets paid off. Are you going to reduce the amount of public housing? Are you going to take money from capital and put it into O and M or ask this Assembly for more money to continue to administer 2,200 to 2,400 houses? Just curious if there’s thought of a strategy, if there is a strategy or what’s going to happen with the fact that the money is declining. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.