Fair enough. I guess we can always say that we can interpret these numbers however we want to justify our decisions as to where we spend money. I would say that, in the areas where the core needs are down, some of the areas that have an all-weather road system are easier. It’s cheaper to get materials to and from communities where there is accessibility to electricians, plumbers and carpenters and they don’t have to use the barging system. I guess what I’m asking with these numbers that you have produced is how these monies are distributed with your core need. I certainly would see that in Colville Lake; 25 families. These families are fairly large in Colville Lake. They don’t have the traditional two or three kids. They have a packed house, even in the community of Tulita. There are families there that have six or seven children who live in three-bedroom houses. I think we need to look at those and see where it really counts in terms of providing these houses and look at Tulita when the winter road finishes in March, the first barge season if we are lucky, if NTCL could be there by the end of June or July and we don’t know what material will be, so there are lots of things to consider.

I think the Minister has indicated that they are looking at different ways they can bring in material. Sometime, Mr. Chairman, these materials, the whole package is not quite complete when they arrive in communities like Fort Good Hope. They have to wait, and when they do wait for the material, it is already fall time. So there are lots of challenges. I don’t think he is a stranger to the uniqueness of building in the communities and I think it is taken into consideration that costs escalate when you have to look at these different factors.

I agree with the Minister in looking at these different challenges, but also I think his department staff needs to look at these unique challenges sometimes. I think they do. I just hope they could put a little more emphasis on what areas need to be paid a little more attention, because these houses are certainly needed in all communities, I agree with you. Some of them are needed more than others. We’ve got health conditions piled on that. I am running out of time, so I don’t want to get into that. I want to leave it at that, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. I didn’t actually hear a question. Does the Minister want to respond to his comments?

Mr. Chairman, the Member raises a lot of issues. We totally agree there is a need to look at unique situations. When we do look at the core need and we adjust for a number of varying factors including transportation, the condition of units, overcrowding, costs, we also look at the condition ratings, the waiting lists and the LHOs and we try to make our decisions accordingly. This year, probably in a couple of weeks, we will be coming back to the committee to show what the plans for this year are, with the new dollars also included. There are a number of other requests that we need to report on and we will provide all that information to committee as soon as we can.

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Next on the list is Mr. Bromley.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am sure the Minister gets this question in his travels, but I do have constituents that raise it with me, that work throughout the Northwest Territories in areas related to housing. When will the government bring back the HAP program and I wonder if the Minister can tell us if that is something that might be under consideration and/or if there is an equivalent program out there. But it certainly seems to be something that people are interested in. In particular, I think, part of the attraction for us should be the fact that, again, it helps increase the skills of the homeowners and their ability to maintain it and so on. There are a lot of good reasons to like that program and I would appreciate any perspective from the Minister on that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister McLeod.

Mr. Chairman, right now with our housing program choices, we don’t have any intention of bringing the HAP program back per se. We are bringing a close cousin to this program. We haven’t titled it or given it any name yet. It is probably a basic housing package or traditional housing package that would allow people to work with us and build their own home, something that would fall within the criteria of forgivable mortgage. It has been raised by a number of the Members, Mr. Yakeleya and Mr. Krutko, and also members of the Small Communities committee, so we are trying to put a design together for presentation for consideration for committee to look at and see and give us their input of what they think. It will be a very basic, very simple design and something that people with low incomes, with small families could live in at a relatively cheap cost.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is good to hear and thank you for those remarks. Would that be for implementation in this coming fiscal year?

Mr. Chairman, we would like to have it out for this year. That is what we are aiming for. I can’t say for certain that we will. We will be bringing something forward to committee for consideration when we start looking at the other initiatives and issues including budget allocations, we will have the first chance to present it to committee for their input and feedback.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Another issue that my constituents have brought forward involved in work, other people, is the issue -- and I may have brought this up last year and I don’t know what has happened on it -- but some LHOs, local housing organizations that achieve energy efficiencies, for example, and thus savings, they generate reduced costs, are then given budgets that are reduced the following year and are in effect being penalized for the efficiencies that they have gained. They would enjoy the opportunity to use those efficiencies the following year and maybe generate larger savings eventually towards their reduced budget. Is the Minister familiar with this issue and would he have any perspective to offer on it? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Anderson.

Thank you, Mr. Anderson. Mr. Bromley.

Thank you, I can certainly understand but, of course, without dealing with it in a more effective and creative way, you are losing your motivation to be effective and efficient and achieve some of those long-term energy or cost reductions. So, maybe just as a comment, I am hoping that some more thinking goes into that so that people don’t get penalized for being efficient

and lose the benefits we are hoping to accumulate. I will leave it at that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Next on the list is Mr. Yakeleya.

Mr. Chairman, the district offices that deliver these programs to our communities through the local housing authorities, they have the staff members, maintenance people. Is it something within the mandate and the plans for this government to look at ways that they could improve the efficiencies of these maintenance workers in the communities? That is probably one of my biggest complaints, is that the public housing units or the private housing units -- I know that is under a different program -- should be looked at because of the conditions they are in. The amount of workers, given the budgets that the LHOs have, the amount of hours they have per day, especially when it gets to minus 45 or minus 50 below, when the phones really start ringing and because of the location of the houses or the situation, is that something that this Minister is looking at in terms of how we improve the maintenance in our communities, especially with the elderly people? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister McLeod.

Mr. Chairman, it is certainly a challenge. The number of people on the ground doing the front-line work in terms of keeping the facilities running and responding to emergencies is always very difficult and quite expensive to run. The people we do have we always encourage to upgrade, whether it’s through internal programs or external programs. We’ve really encouraged our staff to broaden their horizons in terms of dealing with new issues and issues that are starting to become common, such as mould issues. We’re also encouraging our staff to be able to deal with the energy efficiency, as our president has indicated. We are certainly wanting our staff to be able to do more and looking at ways that we can put more people on the ground, but at this point it’s quite challenging. Thank you.

Mr. Chair, I know it’s a real challenge in our small communities. We were trying to figure out how we can best utilize the maintenance people that are on the ground right now and also, at the same time, educate the tenants in those public or private units. It works both ways. Some things the tenants are doing that are not quite correct, but they are used to picking up the phone if something goes wrong. Usually it goes to the local housing authority and they dispatch a worker and that means pulling them off the job to go there. Sometimes it’s quite hectic for them. I guess what I’m looking at is sort of like an implementation of a plan in the community with all

the regional maintenance workers that can get together and say, okay, we have this issue in this community, is it in other communities and how can we fix it.

One thing we looked at in Tulita was with the elders. There are about 47 elders who are 60 years and over. I don’t know have the numbers in front of me of private homes or public homes, but there should be a dedicated person that they could use just to look after seniors only in the communities, because the maintenance workers are so busy with other public housing units. For us to give some comfort and security to the seniors, they can only call one person or that company to call to look at their furnace, frozen pipes or whatever. I think we should give that kind of safety and security for the elders.

I’m looking at these kinds of ways on how we can help with the local housing authority, otherwise we will continue to send letters, e-mails, phone the Minister in terms of how we work on these issues here. I’m looking at bringing some solutions back to the Sahtu. Maybe there are other regions that feel the same way to look at how we start making use of the dollars that we have for our maintenance workers training. Are there ways that we could farm out some of the work that would free up more time for our maintenance workers to look after needs in the community?

Mr. Chairman, I think we do most of what the Member is indicating. We do have some ability for the maintenance staff to get together at the regional level to share ideas, to talk about best practices. We also really are mounting, I’m hoping, a high profile campaign to educate the general public as to what we have in terms of programs. We do have programs under the CARE heading on preventative maintenance that people can tap into and they can hire private companies or private individuals or the band can help them deliver these programs for them. We’ve also embarked on getting apprentices on board. We have, I believe, 12 positions, and two of them are in the Sahtu, the Member’s riding. We’ve really tried to step it up in terms of maintenance and awareness. Thank you.

I wanted to see what the Minister has in terms of the seniors maintenance program. I know this program is out there and seniors can tap into it. There are already policies and regulations set in place. Would the Minister look at having this reviewed and see if there’s a possibility of having the corporation, band council, development corporation or a person in the community that they feel comfortable with will dedicate 100 percent of his time, the corporation’s time, to look after the seniors who are in homes and

be sort of like their only sole client. That way, we could give some comfort to the seniors that there’s an entity that’s only there for them to look after some of the units. Because seniors need the extra care, the extra reassurance of their homes in terms of feeling comfortable there. I’m not too sure how the corporation would feel about this. Maybe they think they’re already doing it, but when I go back to the Sahtu, there’s a different reality there. Thank you.

I’ll answer that question again, Mr. Chairman. I indicated earlier that we did this year set aside $2,000 per community to assist some of the communities to deal with the issues challenging the seniors in terms of preventative maintenance, furnaces, water tanks, things of that nature. We have also opened up our programs so that it’s more accommodating for seniors. We no longer provide a cap on the amount that they can apply for; they can apply for the whole $90,000 that’s available for repairs. Mr. Chairman, we always place the seniors and the disabled at the top of the priority list when applications come in. Thank you.

Well, maybe, Mr. Chair, I’m not saying it the way that I want to say it and I know the Minister has talked about the $2,000 per community. Is that correct?

Mr. Chairman, I should correct my statement. It’s $2,000 per senior for preventative maintenance. Sorry.