Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am grateful for the Minister’s response in terms of continuing to have an open attitude in terms of looking at what can get done in terms of building a log house. I’ve built a log house in Tulita. People have built log houses in the Sahtu region. We know the package. So I would appreciate if the Minister would make a commitment to his staff in the Sahtu region to sit down with some of the members in the Sahtu, to sit down realistically to price out what it costs to build a log home. Would the Minister make that commitment to the leadership in the Sahtu?

Of course we’d be willing to talk to whoever is interested to talk to us about construction of log units. We have already a number of Members that have raised and indicated that they wanted to have that discussion. We’re more than willing to do that. If the Member has some people in his riding that he wants to set us up for discussion with, we’d be pleased to follow up on that.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 8, written questions. Item 9, returns to written questions. Item 10, replies to opening address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item 13, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following two documents entitled Ministerial Benefits Policies and The Report Respecting Benefits Paid to Ministers under the Ministerial Benefits Policies for the Fiscal Year Ending March 31st, 2009.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. McLeod.

I wish to table the following document entitled Good Building Practice for Northern Facilities, Second Edition, 2009.

Pursuant to section 21 of the Legislative Assembly Retiring Allowances Act, I wish to table the Legislative Assembly’s Retiring Allowance Fund Financial Statements for the Year Ended March 31st, 2009.

Pursuant to section 21(1) of the Legislative Assembly’s Retiring Allowances Act and section 11.1 of the Supplementary Allowances Act, I wish to table the Annual Report of the Northwest Territories MLAs’ Pension Plans for the Fiscal Year Ended March 31st, 2009.

Pursuant to section 35(a), (b), and (c) of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, I wish to table the Annual Report Respecting Members’ Indemnities and Allowances for the Fiscal Year Ended March 31st, 2009.

In accordance with section 21(3) of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, I hereby table Amendments to Schedule C of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act - Indemnities and Allowances.

Item 15, notices of motion. Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Abernethy.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

WHEREAS the 16th Legislative Assembly has

agreed on a vision of “strong individuals, families, and communities sharing the benefits and

responsibilities of a unified, environmentally sustainable, and prosperous Northwest Territories”;

AND WHEREAS the 16th Legislative Assembly has

identified a number of priority actions including the promotion of healthy choices and lifestyles, the role of personal and family responsibility and the need to work with families, communities and schools to improve the physical and mental well-being of our youth;

AND WHEREAS the family is the basic unit of society and its well-being and should be supported and promoted;

AND WHEREAS children are entitled to protection from abuse, harm and neglect;

AND WHEREAS the vision of Phase II of the Family Violence Action Plan is “a society where all individuals are safe, respected and valued; where any form of family violence is unacceptable; and where children, women and men have opportunities to reach their full potential”;

AND WHEREAS over the past few years Members of the 16th Legislative Assembly and their

constituents have voiced concerns regarding child protection apprehension, the discretionary powers of child protection workers and the overall oversight of the NWT child protection regime;

AND WHEREAS 622 Northwest Territories children and youth who are receiving services from the Department of Health and Social Services - children and family services division as of December 3, 2008;

AND WHEREAS parents retain custodial rights for only 43 percent of these children and youth through the use of plan of care, voluntary, and support service agreements;

AND WHEREAS only 52 percent of these children receive services delivered in the home of a parent, a relative or someone the child or youth knew;

AND WHEREAS during fiscal year 2007-2008 there were a total of 56 children and youth supported in residential treatment services out of the Territory;

AND WHEREAS 111 children were apprehended for more than 72 hours in 2008;

AND WHEREAS the Government of the Northwest Territories annually expends a significant amount of money on child care programs, including nearly $8 million for foster care alone;

AND WHEREAS the Standing Committee on Social Programs of the 15th Legislative Assembly

presented a report on child and family service matters that focused on strengthening existing child protection practices and ensuring that all provisions contained in the Child and Family Services Act be implemented and utilized in all communities of the Northwest Territories;

AND WHEREAS the standing committee recommended that the government of the day provide a comprehensive response to the committee’s report;

AND WHEREAS the requested response was never tabled and nor was any meaningful analysis of the highlighted issues ever provided;

AND WHEREAS other jurisdictions in Canada, including Ontario and British Columbia, have recently conducted comprehensive reviews of their own child protection regimes;

AND WHEREAS it has become patently obvious that the Child and Family Services Act is in need of a comprehensive review;

AND WHEREAS a review should include an examination of the administration and implementation of the act, the effectiveness of its provisions including the assignment of discretionary powers to child protection workers and the achievement of the objectives stated in the preamble, and may include recommendations for changes to the act and its regulations;

AND WHEREAS a review should also incorporate and respect traditional cultural values and approaches to conflict resolution;

AND WHEREAS the Legislative Assembly wishes to begin a comprehensive review of the Child and Family Services Act;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, that this Legislative Assembly hereby establish a special committee to conduct a review of the Child and Family Services Act;

AND FURTHER, that the following Members be named to a special committee:

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the Member for Great Slave, Mr. Abernethy;

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the Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Beaulieu; and

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the Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko;

AND FURTHERMORE, that notwithstanding Rule 88(2), the following Members be named as alternate members to the special committee:

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the Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro; and

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the Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

AND FURTHERMORE, that the special committee prepares its terms of reference and presents them at the first opportunity during the sitting of the Legislative Assembly in October 2009.

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. A motion is on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Abernethy.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to put forward this motion for the review of the Child and Family Services Act for a number of

reasons. However, before I go into some of these reasons,` I want to stress my appreciation for the hard work and dedication of all social workers who are involved in the administration of the implementation of this act.

Unfortunately, from time to time, some children will need to be taken under the protection of the government. When this occurs we must ensure by way of this act and its implementation that it is done in the most reasonable and fair manner without jeopardizing that child’s future health and happiness.

Our social workers are the people in the front line doing the apprehensions. They are the ones who are often putting their own safety on the line as parents are often not happy with the children being taken away. Threats of physical violence towards these workers is a reality.

I make this motion to review the act, not to criticize of judge these social workers. I recommend this review because I and many of my colleagues have heard concerns raised by our constituents on the implementation of the act and the certain clauses within the act itself.

In discussing this motion, several Members indicated their concerns focus not on the act itself but more on the implementation of the act. Any review done should focus on the implementation as well as the act itself. I agree that many of the concerns that people are raising may indeed be implementation issues. I also suggest that where implementation issues exist, possibly a number of reasons the implementation is not occurring as expected exist. For example, in some cases, the lack of implementation may be for financial reasons. In some cases, the lack of implementation may be due to lack of will by the policymakers and senior management. In some cases, it may be due to lack of will or ability of the frontline providers. And, in some cases, it may be because the act lacks clarity or certain clauses making it impossible to implement as written or intended.

Sometimes things look good on paper, but they don’t really work in the real world. So to do a review of implementation, you need to be sure of the reason things are being implemented and what the intent of the action was and that it’s based on the act.

I believe that implementation reviews must also include a review of the act. A review of the act is a review of its implementation. A review of the implementation of the act must include a review of the relevant section of the act. You can’t really have one without the other.

This is a significant act. The professionals in the department worked on it for a number of years before implementing it in 1998. Professionals of the highest calibre worked on the development of a

unique act suited for the realities of living and working in the Northwest Territories. We must acknowledge the uniqueness of this act and applaud those who put so much work into getting it developed in the first place. However, things change and things evolve. If this act were written and implemented today, it would include a clause stating that it needs to be reviewed by this Legislature every X number of years; five, 10, four, whatever the case may be. The newest act passed by this Legislature, the Species at Risk Act, includes such a clause. It must be reviewed by this Legislative Assembly every 10 years. The intent of the review is to ensure that the preamble is still relevant, the act is meeting its intent, and that if the act is still relevant, it is being implemented accordingly.

I’m asking for nothing more for this act. This act is about the protection of children within the Northwest Territories. The act states: “It is recognized that decisions concerning children should be made in accordance with the best interest of children, with the recognition that different cultural values and practices must be respected in those determinations.” This still holds true. Children are the first priority of this act and they must be. Reviewing the act and its implementation will help us be confident that the act and its implementation are still meeting that basic commitment to protect the children while recognizing the different cultural values and practices must be respected.

As I said earlier, the act is a big one. I believe that much of it is good and I expect that the review will support this claim. However, based on conversations with some constituents and stories I’ve heard from other MLAs, it’s clear that some holes exist in the act and there are problems with its implementation. Some Members have indicated that a number of reviews have already been done. A lot of research has already been conducted. As recently as 2007, amendments were made to the act itself. These are all positive steps. Unfortunately, many of the recommendations that came from those reviews have not been acted upon. Further, they’re located in a wide variety of different locations. This review will be an opportunity to compile all of that information and present it with recommendations in a focused and logical manner. It will be one document with direction to Cabinet and the department, based on what we find through research and what we have heard from the people of the Northwest Territories.

Right now many of the existing recommendations from a variety of sources are sitting on shelves building up dust. I think it’s important not to lose all of the hard work done by others in this area. By way of the review, we can take the dust off of these old reports and recommendations, take the ones

that are still outstanding, and build them into one report.

I know that the professional staff within the department are working hard to rectify any implementations that they have identified. They’ve identified some. I believe when we go out, we’ll hear others that may have been missed by the department. It does not take away the need, in my opinion, to do this review. In fact, by way of the review there is opportunity to provide some additional direction and lend support to the Department of Health and Social Services in this work. To do this review right, social workers and Health and Social Services staff will need to be included. I’m interested in hearing more from the social workers on what aspects of the act and its implementation are working, which areas are difficult and might need some modification, and what areas are definitely not working. They are currently the experts and deliver the services on the front line. A review can’t be done without their input.

They aren’t the only people that need to be consulted. Parents, NGOs, children who have gone through the system and are now adults, foster parents, and communities in general need to be engaged. I hope if this motion passes, the terms and references will include engaging all of these necessary and relevant stakeholders.

As indicated earlier, this is an incredibly important act. A lot of work was done on it. It is unique for the Northwest Territories. Unfortunately, since it passed in this House in 1998, it has not had a comprehensive review. It is unreasonable to assume that there aren’t holes in it. Times change and opinions and technology evolve.

Some of the areas we have been made aware of where holes exist either in the act or by way of implementation include, but are not limited to:

1. The role of the child and family service

committees in each community of the Northwest Territories. The act says there should be one in every community. Right now there are none in any communities.

2. The gap exists in the system with respect to

homeless youth between the ages of 16 and 19 who aren’t supported through the act and aren’t eligible for financial assistance. This may be a combined issue between ECE and Health and Social Services. Regardless, this review will help put some focus on that issue.

3. Is there enough protection for social workers

who must, according to the act, apprehend based on pretty much any allegation even when the worker knows that the complaint is frivolous? This puts our social workers in a difficult position within their communities and affects their ability to do their jobs in cases of real concern.

4. The right of parents. I know this act is designed

to protect children. However, in rare situations where social workers may have an unfair bias against a parent, a child may be apprehended on a permanent basis unnecessarily. This isn’t good for the parents or the children who benefit from continued involvement with their birth parents.

Prior to this act, community social workers, those trained in the North with either a certificate or a diploma, were able to work with families and undertake apprehensions when necessary. Now, with this act, if they don’t have a degree, they can’t do that even if they have 10 to 15 years of directly related experience. I don’t believe that this is reasonable in the NWT. Some of the best practitioners are those originally from the communities, with extensive years of service, as they understand the realities of living and working in those small communities.

Lastly, punishment for frivolous complaints aren’t regularly followed up on. If people aren’t worried about ramifications for making false complaints, false complaints will continue to be made. There are a lot more, but for the sake of time I will stop. In short, it is time to review the act and its implementation. The children of the NWT are our future and we must ensure that they receive the protection they require.

A review isn’t a challenge of the department. I am not suggesting we challenge the department. I am suggesting that we work with the department and help them identify areas to improve the Child and Family Services Act. Is this act still relevant after 10 years? I think so. I am sure it is, but is it still exactly right? It is time to do the review to make sure that it is current, that it is right and that it is meeting the needs of our children. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. To the motion. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For someone who was here in the 13th Assembly when

this legislation was brought forward, we insisted, especially for the majority of the Members in this House where we were the majority at one time in the 13th Assembly, that whatever legislation came

forward that there had to be insurance that the communities would have been involved in whatever process that was put in place to ensure that they were involved with whatever happens to those children. The children of their communities, the decision that is being made with regards to the individuals in regards to social workers and establish a committee so that they can try to resolve this dispute at the community level.

Mr. Speaker, part of the legislation was the formation of the child and family services committees, which is a very important component

of this legislation. There are 10 clauses in the agreement which reflect that committee and what it is going to do and what powers it has and when they can be notified.

Mr. Speaker, the important part is that before any decision is made to take the child to the next step, which was the courts, that these committees would have been able to sit down with the social worker, the family, the plan and care committee workers and try to work out a solution so that those children would not end up in the court system, would not be permanent wards of the Government of the Northwest Territories by way of permanent custody. And yet, Mr. Speaker, I, for one, have fought for years to get a plan and care committee or community child and family services committee established in my community of Fort McPherson. There were people who were committed to sit on this committee. They volunteered their time and themselves to this committee, but yet there was no support whatsoever from the Government of the Northwest Territories to even find the resources, to find the support that they needed to do their job under this legislation.

For us to sit here 10 years after the fact, and more than 10 years since the legislation was passed in 1998, realize that now we have some 600-and-something children in care. It is expensive. It is $8 million to the Government of the Northwest Territories and increasing, and yet you look at the number of children who are under permanent custody or wards of this government, are some 200 children. Almost 30 percent of those children are now in permanent custody. I, for one, feel strongly that whatever legislation we put in place which identifies an important component of how this process is going to work and not funded and say, we are sorry, the funding wasn’t allocated. Well, you found $8 million to fund the foster care side of it, but it is more important that the resources were put there in the first place and the community members were willing to volunteer for this committee.

Mr. Speaker, I think it is important to realize that the legislation that was put forward had great intentions. But yet, Mr. Speaker, if the important component is not there by way of inclusion of communities, inclusion of a process that would try to resolve these issues before they got in courts and also the cost of the court time, the cost of the social worker time, the cost of the policing costs, all these costs you add up could have paid for these family care committees long before where we are today.

Mr. Speaker, I think it is important to also realize that we also have the system in place that was mentioned in regards to what happens to these children after they turn 16. The thing that frustrates me is that a large number of these children who

basically ended up in the care of this government by way of foster care, by way of permanent custody and turn 16, got themselves in trouble with the law because of petty crimes, are now in our justice system by way of our courts, by way of our jail facilities. A lot of these young people are now in southern institutions. Was that the intention of this legislation? I hope not. But that is a result that we are facing because this legislation wasn’t followed the way it was passed in this Legislature, but, more importantly, how it was carried out by the Department of Health and Social Services to ensure that that very important component was there to try to resolve these disputes before they came to be more than what they should have been which try to have these things resolved at the community level by the community representatives and trying to find solutions for the community and residents but, more importantly, for the children of our community.

Mr. Speaker, the most important asset we have as people are our children. The same thing applies to our communities. Those children are our future. They are our future leaders. More importantly, they are what maintains our society.

Mr. Speaker, I hate ranting on the point of what has happened in the past, but I think sometimes you have to learn from your mistakes in the past in order to go forward. I always go back to what happened in residential school where the government-of-the-day had great intentions in regards to the White Paper to assimilate native children into white society and make them white children, which they weren’t. This concept of what we are doing here by way of using legislation to find ways of apprehending children, finding ways to break up homes and take the children out of our home isn’t much different than what happened back then. I think it is important to realize that, from First Nations communities, this is one of the most irritating things that we have to deal with from community leaders, from MLAs to the chiefs, to our counsellors, to our family members, to our siblings and to our relatives, because we all live in the same environment.

I think it is important to realize that what we are doing here hopefully would not have us end up in the courts or end up in another major lawsuit because government policy wasn’t followed like it was intended and someone took the wrong route in regards to how they implement it because they felt that section really isn’t that important so let’s not implement that section. We will just go directly to the courts and let the courts make a decision what is going to happen to this child. That, for me, is the downfall of this legislation.

If that legislation was followed as it was basically passed in this Legislature, we would not be here today. It hasn’t been and because of that, we have

to pay for it today. That is why I support a comprehensive review of this legislation going to the communities that basically have the highest number of children that have been in the system and talk to the community, talk to the parents, talk to the children, talk to the foster care parents and find out why this system is not working.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I will be supporting the motion. I ask that the other Members support it also. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. To the motion. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In principle, I am very supportive of the review of the Child and Family Services Act. Mr. Speaker, the motion is calling for special committee but I would like to move an amendment to the motion and have the review done by our Social Programs committee.

I MOVE, seconded by the Honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, that Motion 21-16(3), Establishment of a Special Committee to Review the Child and Family Services Act be amended by:

1. Deleting the words “Establishment of a Special

Committee to” from the title of the motion and inserting the word “of” after the word “Review”;

2. Deleting the word “comprehensive” from the

twentieth paragraph and inserting the words “and its implementation” after the words “Child and Family Services Act”;

3. Deleting the words “establish a special

committee” in the twenty-first paragraph and inserting the words “direct the Standing Committee on Social Programs”;

4. Inserting the words “and its implementation

and present its findings to this House at the earliest opportunity” in the twenty-first paragraph after the words “Child and Family Services Act”;

5. Deleting the twenty-second and twenty-third

paragraphs; and

6. Deleting the words “Special Committee

prepares its terms of reference” in the twenty-fourth paragraph and inserting the words “Standing Committee on Social Programs prepare additional terms of reference for the review of the Child and Family Services Act and its implementation”.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The motion is on the floor. The motion is in order. To the amendment. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Abernethy.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the amendment, we had many of the Members and I and others as well had some discussions after I did the original notice of motion. The bottom line is it is about who is going to be doing the review. It is not much difference between a special committee and Social Programs doing it. Social Programs already exists. As long as the review gets done, I am happy and content. I don’t mind one way or another. I think the Social Programs committee is a good committee and they are more than capable of doing this review in a comprehensive manner. I support the motion to amend.

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. To the amendment. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As a seconder of the motion, I also concur to the amendment. I, for one, feel that this work is long overdue. The sooner we get on with it and get down to the bottom of what the problems are and finding solutions to resolving these outstanding issues, I think it is important that we get on with it. With that, I will be supporting the amendment. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. To the amendment.