Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. Certainly this has been in the works, as you can see, for a number of years. There have been uptakes in the program itself, but there hasn’t been much. This has been targeted as one of our reductions. There are other bursaries and grants and scholarships out there besides what we’ve provided. That’s part of the reason why we initiated part of the cuts within our Justice department.

I think, if anything, any dollars a student can get to get a law degree, $15,000 doesn’t really add up to much. I think for a $93 million department I find it odd that you cut in this particular area to save money. For $15,000 of a budget of $93 million and to pick on the poor aboriginal law student, I think it doesn’t serve justice. If anything it should stay there. Would you consider reinstating it so that aboriginal students who can apply for this program know they’ll be able to get some bursary to help them get their law degree?

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. We talked about this on numerous occasions within our department where when it came down to certain cuts. We’ve identified this area, of course, as important. At the same time, we do provide, as I stated earlier, our SFA program does cover and the scholarships that we do provide, and other scholarships, whether they be at the universities or colleges, they do provide various and top quality scholarships as well. They can range from $15,000 to $20,000, depending on the program they’re in. This was just an initial step to attract aboriginal lawyers. It has been undertaken by a few individuals. We do have aboriginal lawyers within our department as well. It has been successful, but it’s a small investment we had and we figured there are other avenues these individuals can access.

But I think this does more than provide a bursary. It also provides the student who’s looking at a career in the Department of Justice to work for the Department of Justice as summer employment. I think it’s more than just the Bursaries Program. This program allows people to get involved in the Department of Justice so they are able to access this program. If anything, it was started off at $30 million and now it’s down to zero. I think that, personally, I’d like to seriously ask the Minister to reinstate these dollars for this program. If anything, if there are more programs out there that can allow First Nations people to get their law degree, come back and work in the Northwest

Territories either for First Nations government, the Government of the Northwest Territories, the Department of Justice, that there is a need for those people in the Northwest Territories. Again, I’d like to know exactly...You’re saying you can go to student financial assistance. Well, student financial assistance, as a student knows, struggling to go to university to get a degree is a four-year process. You need every dollar you can get. If that means getting a few dollars by applying on these bursaries will help you get through, I think that’s a good thing. So again, I’d like to ask the Minister to seriously consider reinstating this program in light of the reductions in the Department of Justice and find the money elsewhere.

This area specifically we’ve again targeted those individuals with aboriginal descent to take advantage of this program. Some have, but most have not returned to the North. We’re lucky that a couple who have returned are working for our department. But there’s no guarantee that there are jobs at the end of the program within our Justice department. Everybody goes through certain processes. SFA, there is money there and with these four-year degree programs, or six years, depending on the areas of interest, there are, as I stated earlier, a variety of scholarships that individuals can qualify for. Especially with a law degree program, it is a highly skilled area and there are additional scholarships in those specific areas as well. Not only that, but being First Nations you do get areas of sponsorship from your First Nation, as well, and different organizations too.

Another question in regard to this page; the aboriginal court challenge program. I know at one time it was $50,000. It’s gone down since then. I’d just like to ask the Minister in regard to this program and the Aboriginal Justice Program, there has been a request from aboriginal organizations, especially when it comes to hunting rights and rights regarding those court challenges. I’m wondering, is there any way to expand this program to other areas with respect to the land claim agreement organizations and court challenges. Not just looking at the rights side, but looking at the constitutional side of those commitments. Court challenges do cost a lot of money and especially in the area of constitutional challenges you’re talking about possibly making your way to the Supreme Court of Canada. I know for a fact the only case I can think of is in regard to the Metis hunting case in Wood Buffalo National Park. That one cost somewhere in the range of $100,000. I’d like to ask the Minister if there’s a way to enhance this program to see court challenges that really can make a difference in regard to aboriginal rights in the Northwest Territories and in regard to Canada, especially when it comes to land

claim agreements and constitutional rights that can be infringed on with regard to those rights that are now coming forward. Is that something that this government can seriously consider looking at to expand this program and other areas?

The $40,000 that we’ve allocated has always been the case, the same amount. Since 2006 until today there have only been two uptakes on this particular funding that’s been allocated to aboriginal court challenges. Also, the decision is with the board that we have in place, the committee. They make recommendations to us as the Justice department and we move forward on those recommendations. So far there have only been two uptakes. If we need to broaden the policies or the regulations that are in place, we need to look at that as well. But we have to keep in mind that there have only been two uptakes to date.

Just a question to the Minister in regard to the two uptakes. Is it because people aren’t aware of the program? I know you don’t like to promote the government giving away money, but maybe if we do a better job of promoting this program, especially when it comes to aboriginal court challenges regarding rights, we’d probably get more people on board. We do have the court system, but a lot of times aboriginal people don’t usually use lawyers. They don’t usually realize that you do have some fundamental rights. I’m just wondering what the department is doing to promote this program and get the message out the door that this grant program exists.

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. Certainly we’d like to give out money if we have the money for any initiatives that need to be undertaken. The money is there for that, whether it’s aboriginal court challenges or other areas. We have in the past given information to MLAs to share with the communities, but we can improve on that. We have community justice programs, the coordinators in the communities, we can utilize their services as well. If we need to do more educational material, we can do that. But it is out there and has been for quite some time now. Maybe it’s just a matter of resurfacing what we’ve had before and utilizing our existing agencies.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Next on my list is Mr. Yakeleya.

Mr. Chairman, just to follow up on the Member for Mackenzie Delta in terms of the court challenges funding here. Is this something the Minister would consider in terms of reviewing, given the number of uptakes on this program? Is it because it’s the board that determines if it’s a good application to apply for, or is it just a lack of information from the communities, or are the requirements too stringent? Because certainly I

think when you go into communities, when you hear our people talk, there are lots of opportunities for them to define and protect aboriginal rights. Sometimes we just don’t have the means or the necessary skills to put together an application. I haven’t seen it. I’ll be wanting to ask the Minister if he can provide me with some information to take back to my region.

I like the Minister’s suggestion that maybe this should be shared with the justice committees. I think there are lots of opportunities where members in our regions could look at court challenges that define, because the aboriginal rights are always evolving. They don’t really...It’s like Jell-O on a tree, I guess. They don’t stick very well because it’s always evolving. Protection of the aboriginal rights is through the land claims. We have protection under there. There are different avenues. I would ask the Minister if he would give some serious consideration in looking at this program and seeing where it can be beneficial to the people who it’s intended to be for -- groups, organizations -- to look at the definition and protection of aboriginal rights, be it education, justice, whatever you have. I think that might be a start. Would the Minister consider that?

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. This is an area that we can certainly look at. There has been, as I stated, two uptakes. The program itself has been the recommendations from the board. The board functions and our department is working closely with the board. We can certainly look at the pros and cons in this regard. Then we can certainly get back to the standing committee on what’s working, what’s not working, why it’s not working, and give an update on the program itself.

I certainly look forward to the Minister’s update as to the pros and cons of this program here within his department. I’m not too sure in terms of the structure or the members who serve on the board function. So I guess I need some information from the department to help me educate myself as to the function of the board and which members are on there and what criteria they have. I think this is a good program. I think we just need to expand it and see where we can use it. I certainly would welcome the Minister’s quick report on this one here to let me know about this court challenge issue here.

Just on the other one there, another line here is on the law bursaries to indigenous aboriginal students. Is there any indication from the Minister that the federal government could be looking at something like this? I know it’s only $15,000. Is there any indication from any other foundations to partnering

with the federal government that this project could and should be? Is there any other indication from any other groups out there, be it aboriginal land claim groups or corporations, that say yes, we could look at supporting our indigenous aboriginal students to attain a law degree? I think because we’re relying solely on the territorial government, and with the exercise of the budget reductions, that’s something they cut. So I think, if I heard correctly, the Minister said he’s outside the box and having creative thinking solutions. I’m going to challenge his department to look at some of those creative solutions to having a budget item like this come back into the department.

Certainly we’ll get back to the standing committee once we’re ready to go before them on the update of the aboriginal court challenges. The criteria or the regulations that they may have in place and who the board members and the decision being made and so forth. The process itself. We can certainly update the Members on those topics.

On the law bursaries, of course, there is, as I say, there are other scholarships out there from whether it be the Law Society or land claim groups. There are certainly land claim groups that provide various scholarship opportunities. This particular area could also be addressed with the federal counterpart as well. As you know, there are FPT meetings happening every now and then, so it can certainly be addressed at that time as well. I’ll keep the Members posted on this particular area and move on a forward basis. Mahsi, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, at the federal, provincial and territorial justice meetings, I hope the Minister gives a strong statement for students in the Northwest Territories in terms of supporting our students in law, in justice, and the importance of our students getting into a system that would be beneficial to people in the Northwest Territories, especially the aboriginal governments that certainly look for these qualified, educated people to move their vision forward in terms of their own government. I look forward to the Minister working with his counterparts to see if there’s a way that the students can be supported through this avenue here.

Mr. Chair, the national justice issues here are $9,000 grants to organizations working to improve the Canadian justice system. Just a comment here in terms of these types of grants. I’m not too sure about this grant here. Either way I look at it, just on the value of the book right here is that these types of dollars should be going to the community justice programs in the North because they are improving the justice system. I’m not really comfortable to speak too much about it because I don’t have the information here in terms of this grant and what is

the criteria for organizations working towards improving the Canadian justice system. It’s pretty broad so I will have to wait and ask the Minister to provide me some information at another time. If anything, these grants should maybe be added to the law bursary for these young aboriginal students to improve the justice system. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, certainly we do provide funding to these national areas, although it’s a small amount. I think we need to continue providing those services. We need to reach out to other organizations outside the Northwest Territories. They are the ones who have the expertise in certain jurisdictions. With the Community Justice Program we do invest into the communities and we will continue to do so. If we need to increase in those areas, that’s what we need to discuss further. With this, with respect to the national, it’s a small amount and I think we need to continue having that dialogue with outside of the Northwest Territories. Mahsi.

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Next on my list is Mr. Krutko.

Mr. Chair, I’d like to move a motion.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. We’ll just take a couple minutes’ break here in order to get the paperwork and everything done. Thank you.

I’d like to call the Committee of the Whole back to order. We’re on page 9-14, services to government. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The motion is being distributed. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Krutko.