Page 13-34, information item, work performed on behalf of others. Agreed?

Agreed. Page 13-35, information item, work performed on behalf of others. Agreed?

Okay now we can return to Page 13-7, department summary. Environment and Natural Resources, department summary, operations expenditure summary, $65.760 million. Agreed?

Does the committee agree that we have concluded the Department of Environment and Natural Resources. Agreed?

So with that, I would like to thank the Minister and thank the witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, would you like to escort the witnesses out?

As we agreed, the next department we will be considering will be the Department of Transportation, so I would like to ask the Minister if he has any opening comments. Minister of Transportation, Mr. Michael McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I do have some opening comments.

Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to be here today to present for your consideration the Department of Transportation’s proposed main estimates for the 2010-2011 fiscal year. For the 2010-2011 fiscal year, the department is requesting a total budget of $104 million, including amortization, which is a 7 percent increase from the current year’s budget of $97 million. Excluding amortization, the increase is 3.5 percent.

This budget proposes increases of $4.6 million to cover forced growth and $1.8 million for strategic initiatives. It also includes two major structural changes to the department’s operations expenditures in the areas of amortization and utility and building maintenance budgets. This year the department has, on the advice of the Auditor General’s office, adjusted the way it accounts for the amortization of assets. This change realizes a 5 percent or $5 million increase to the department’s budget for amortization of capital assets. The budget before you also highlights the consolidation and transfer of utility and maintenance budgets to Public Works and Services including two maintenance positions at Yellowknife Airport. Overall, this change transfers $4.3 million from the Department of Transportation to Public Works and Services.

One important forced growth item is a new regulatory environmental analyst position. In recent years, the department has become subject to a much stricter regulatory environment which is taking more and more time to respond to and manage. Having an additional position that is dedicated to these efforts will help the department meet the various licensing, permitting and reporting obligations that NWT and federal regulators require. Observing these requirements will also minimize potential environmental liabilities and related litigation risks.

While we will continue to invest in the day-to-day routine of operating and maintaining the transportation system throughout the Territory, I would like to highlight for committee a number of strategic initiatives we plan to implement. These strategic initiatives will allow the department to

develop and deliver a number of projects that have a direct and positive impact on the lives of Northerners. Over time, Mr. Chairman, these initiatives will create lasting benefits and deliver on the needs of the people.

One area of significant focus for the department is the Reducing the Cost of Living Strategic Initiative. For next year, Mr. Chairman, the department is proposing an additional $250,000 to continue the seasonal construction of the Wekweeti winter road, and $150,000 to accelerate the Fort Simpson region ice bridge construction. Along with these new initiatives, the department continues to undertake a large number of capital projects including relocating airports in Trout Lake and Colville Lake and runway extensions in Fort Good Hope, Tulita and Fort McPherson. We will also be busy continuing the reconstruction, widening and surfacing of highways all across the NWT and improving winter roads to Trout Lake, Deline and Colville Lake. These capital investments were approved as part of the 2010-2011 acquisition plan last October.

Mr. Chairman, the department has also proposed funding under the Refocusing Government Strategic Initiative, including $500,000 in funding for the commercial transportation and Licence Plate Program. This will focus the department’s highway traffic officers on enforcement activities. It will also fund the launch of a new licence plate for the Territory. It is expected that the cost of this initiative will be fully offset via user fees. We are also proposing an additional $677,000 for the Community Access Program. This is an important expansion of the Community Access Roads Program and with this increase in funding we will be able to broaden the number and scope of community access projects and we can expand the scope of the program to consider contributions for local boating facilities and winter gravel access roads.

Next year, Mr. Chairman, the department will continue our progress on the Mackenzie Valley Highway to Tuktoyaktuk. Last month, Indian and Northern Affairs Canada and the department announced $7 million in federal funding to complete project description reports – PDRs -- for the highway from Wrigley to the Dempster. This work should take the next two years to complete. A project description report for the northern most section of the highway from Inuvik to Tuktoyaktuk has been underway for a number of months and will be completed soon. These PDRs represent the next step forward in the development of an all-season highway. They will allow the government to make a submission to regulators to start the environmental assessment for this project. Finding the significant resources to construct the highway will still remain as a challenge and we will continue

to present the need for the road to the federal government when we have the opportunity.

While we continue to pursue an all-weather Mackenzie Valley Highway, the department has continued to improve the winter road. Work to date includes the completion of many grade improvements and construction of 34 of the 40 bridges along the road. We will continue with the construction of the Blackwater Bridge, which is currently underway and will undertake grade improvements. These projects help to extend and maintain the operating season by removing the dependency on ice bridges. This year the department will also be installing a number of road signs between Norman Wells and Fort Good Hope to make the road safer and to better inform travellers.

Under the Maximizing Opportunities Strategic Initiative, the department will partner with P3 Canada to study the feasibility of the construction of a seasonal overload road in the Slave Geological Province. Mr. Chairman, this project, if built, could stabilize resupply operations into the Slave Province and related costs and operational difficulties. This road could also create increased economic opportunities in the mineral resource sector.

Mr. Chairman, very briefly, these are the highlights of the Department of Transportation’s proposed main estimates for the 2010-2011 fiscal year. There are many other positive and exciting projects and initiatives that the department expects to accomplish. I am confident that the proposed budget will provide for the continued safe and reliable operation of the NWT transportation system. I would now be happy to answer any questions, Mr. Chairman. Mahsi cho.

Thank you, Minister. With that, we will take a short break.

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I’d like to call Committee of the Whole back to order. We are proceeding with the Department of Transportation. We have had opening comments and would like to ask the Minister if he wishes to bring in witnesses.

Yes, I do, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Minister. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the House.

If I could ask the Minister to introduce your witnesses, please.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Committee, we’re on general comments for the Department of Transportation. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just reviewing the Minister’s opening remarks I noted he didn’t mention anything about the Aklavik community access road to the gravel source and yet there was a motion passed in this House regarding that community and the community of Tuk access road to their gravel sources through the community infrastructure funding. It seems like we’re no farther ahead than we were two years ago. This department’s going full out on other projects, so I would just like to ask the Minister, when motions are passed in this House how seriously do you take them? What is this government doing to work with communities on these type of community initiatives?

I know the community of Aklavik is frustrated with the Department of Transportation with not getting the attention they were hoping to get and not getting the resources they require. I think that we had a perfect opportunity to work with the community in light of the situation they find themselves. The community is without any real gravel source this year, because the majority of the gravel in the community had to be used for the water treatment plant. The community is out almost $100,000 for gravel they don’t have and now to replenish their gravel source they have to do something shortly. For them to continue on their project under Building Canada and complete their drainage work that they’ve been working on since last summer, they don’t have the materials to conclude it because of not having a gravel haul this year. Those little things that communities depend on are big things for them.

It seems like this department has the focus of the big picture while forgetting about the little guys in the smaller communities. I think this government has to realize that they are not just there for megaprojects whether it’s the Deh Cho Bridge or the Mackenzie Highway. They are still responsible for community infrastructure and ensuring that the community has access to gravel and the ability to improve on airports and the ability to ensure they have infrastructure that this department is responsible for.

The other issue is on an issue I have raised in this House many times on a program we had a number of years ago on main street chipsealing. The Department of Transportation played a key role having the expertise in the House working with MACA. I think we identified nine communities to look at developing main street chipsealing for non-tax-based communities. I think we were only able to accomplish only four of the nine.

A lot of good work was done there and we do have to continue to work with those communities and the

Department of Transportation. I think the Department of Transportation has to share their expertise with those communities that do not have that in-house expertise. They should share that knowledge and information with the communities and assist them whenever possible, whether it’s dealing with main street chipsealing or shoreline erosion or drainage issues and infrastructure challenges we’re facing in our smaller communities where Public Works has a presence and a role to play. Sometimes we spend too much time playing with the big boys and forget about the little people in the communities. I believe that this department has to come back down to earth and get involved with the communities and work with them to deal with the infrastructure challenges they’re facing.

I also wanted to elaborate on the area of other federal infrastructure funding. I have been working with the community of Fort McPherson on the Dempster Highway. We have been looking at a means of a pilot project on resurfacing the Dempster Highway. I think the government has to make that decision sometime in the next number of years. We’re doing the widening; we should be almost complete the widening from the border to Tsiigehtchic hopefully within the next three or four years. Then again, you have to deal with the issue of surface. Whether it’s looking at different options like chipsealing to hardtop to pavement or whatever. We have to start looking at that issue.

Dealing with climate change and global warming we have to realize that our highways are an asset. We have to put a lot of money into them and we have to protect that asset going forward. I think it’s important that this government look at some of the options and alternatives. If that means looking at pilot projects to try out different products, I know there’s a company here in Yellowknife that calls themselves Easy Street and they have a product that they’ve been testing on the different roads. I believe they laid a stretch down around Behchoko on Highway No. 3. I think working with communities if there’s a possibility of joining forces on some of these paving projects, that we have to look at that going forward. I think it’s important that we look at that aspect of things.

I have raised the issue of the possibility of a bridge across the Peel River. I’ve done some work on it with people in the private sector. I have had support with the Hamlet of Fort McPherson and the Gwich’in Tribal Council to look at some way of acquiring that project. Again the department’s too busy dealing with the Deh Cho Bridge and they’re forgetting about other opportunities or potential bridges throughout the Northwest Territories. I think this government has to realistically look at that part of our infrastructure and the possibility of replacing the ferry operations with bridges in other parts of our infrastructure, whether it’s the Dempster Highway or the Mackenzie Highway or the Liard

Highway. We have to be considering that as an alternative. Also the replacement of culverts with bridges, especially the large culverts that will have to be replaced at some point.

I’ll leave it at that and wait to see what the Minister’s responses are in some of those areas. I do have some issues with the department and how they deal with small communities.

Thank you very much, Mr. Krutko. Next on my list is Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m happy with the Transportation budget. I had hoped that, like Mr. Krutko, there would be more money put into community access roads or the Community Access Program I suppose it is. I see that as a program for the small communities even off the highway to be able to access certain areas they need to access. I know it was used to access gravel supplies and so on and so forth. I’m not 100 percent sure about that, but I understand that from just what I’ve learned over the last couple of years. I think this Community Access Program should really be targeted to communities that want access to certain areas.

I know that in the communities that I represent this program being coupled with, I think, other programs like maybe programs through ITI for parks programs with this program and maybe even private industry, a couple of very specific projects that I want to see come out of this Community Access Program is the first one being the Austin Lake Road in Lutselk'e. I want to ask the Minister about that during detail, I suppose, on what the plans are for Austin Lake Road. Essentially, Austin Lake is, I believe, about 40 kilometres outside of Lutselk'e. But on the halfway mark, approximately, there’s the Snowdrift River where the intention is to put the mini-hydro. So my assumption, again, there is that mini-hydro road, there will be a road from Lutselk'e to the mini-hydro for access purposes so that should be built through that budget. Beyond that to Austin Lake where I think that a lot of people use the lake, they have cabins and so on on the lake, it provides access to that whole area in the east of Lutselk'e that the people there wish to access a lot easier than they’re currently accessing the road. People have trailers, boats, they could pull their boats over there in an hour or so, I think, versus what is quite a long haul by boat to Austin Lake. So I’m interested in seeing this department working with the mini-hydro project and also other areas such as the Mine Training Society, as an example, or any other industry-types that want to train people or just assist with building some access for the community to there.

Another one is in Fort Resolution that I’ve mentioned in the House before, a proposal to try to access a place called Big Eddie outside of Fort Resolution by road. So far, half of the road… It’s

about nine miles, apparently, and four miles of that road was built using a training program put on by Aurora College, Thebacha Campus anyway, out of Fort Smith. They had run that program over there where people trained and actually built half of that road. The people in the community felt it was important and would be a real benefit to the community during certain seasons if they’re able to access this area called Big Eddie. I had proposed that ITI, who was attempting to build a road around Mission Island, was to move their attention away from Mission Island and over to Big Eddie and it would be very beneficial to the community if the park was built over in that area. I went around the community and talked to… It was first proposed to me by a couple of fellows that I was meeting with and then I went to the community. As I went from house to house and started asking people what they thought about being able to drive to Big Eddie, having a possibility to overnight down there by the river during breakup and stuff like that, and people were pretty excited about it. I don’t believe it’s a lack of funding but just the will to coordinate this with all of the parties that would benefit from this. Arctic College could continue their training on that road. ITI could move their park, have a park that’s more acceptable to more people in Fort Resolution and also use this department, DOT, using the community access road to be able to access an area for the people. Apparently, during some parts of the year that’s one area where people go there to fish a certain type of fish that’s common in the bay and other parts of the year, and then during freeze-up, breakup, in those areas this access to this area is beneficial for a little traditional harvesting as well. I believe that’s the same too, a little bit of by-product of building this park would be giving the Lutselk'e people access to some traditional harvesting in and around Austin Lake.

Those are two projects that I, like I said, would like to follow up with the Minister and discuss. I think it will, like I said, take some coordination with probably Education and ITI through the college and even, I think, some of the, like I had indicated, the Mine Training Society and some of the diamond industry is interested in assisting there. I think they would pitch some money in and all together be able to provide some access to areas for both of those communities that I think would be very valuable to the communities.

Other than that, I’m pleased with what I see before me. I’ve gone through the budget. I think the department’s going in the right direction for sure for Tu Nedhe and near Fort Resolution putting some chipseal on the road and so on. I like some of the ideas of looking at some of the new products like Easy Street, but I see that more as a MACA and a municipality issue because of the speeds in which I think this stuff holds up, under a certain amount of speeds. I don’t really know, but I just know that

chipseal is going to be more economical for the highway. I don’t know about the community. I think that’s something we’d look at and something that maybe Transportation would have some knowledge in that could work with the municipality to provide them some technical specs on this product or something. But, like I said, my main focus for this department is community access road and I know that although the budget has tripled and we had asked that through the Rural and Remote Communities committee, we had asked that money be put into this project, and I see there’s a direct injection here of over $600,000 added to this and tripled the budget. So my assumption, I guess, is that’s something that we will do again next year and maybe move a little closer to achieving some of the stuff that us MLAs want to see insofar as communities gaining access to certain areas around the communities. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Committee, we’re on general comments. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. As we deliberate the Department of Transportation that’s before us, I’m really pleased that we’re able to work together as a House, committee and the Cabinet, in moving some of the big ticket items forward, most particularly, the Trout Lake expansion of the airport, the relocation of the airport. That’s a huge ticket item. It was the subject of much debate earlier on in our term, but we were able to work together and see the need of it for safety and the travelling public and the community. I’d really like to say that I’m sure that working hard together we can move forward and concentrate and come to solutions on some of the big ticket items. Most particularly, of course, the source of our new debate is the Deh Cho Bridge. I really think that we’re at a stage that we do have to continue to move forward and find some resolution about it.

A lot of my colleagues are asking for an explanation or else a timeline of events right from the cradle of the project. I think they are deserving of those answers. I would like to see us work towards that. At the same time, it will take up a lot of resources from the department, because we do have some hard work ahead of us in order to meet the completion date of 2011. I can say now that I am not going to be opposed to it. However, I think that hard questions have to be answered. I am sure that the Minister and the department are up to the task in giving us those answers.

Throughout my constituency visits, the discussions of our highway systems throughout the Nahendeh riding is always high on the agenda, first, of course, providing local employment and local businesses and access to the contracts that are associated with the maintenance and the reconstruction of our highways and, of course, also for sending a

community ventures that wish to work towards that but also working towards, and I have been saying it for a couple of years now. I know that money will be tight but I still think that leaving a legacy of improved highway system for this Assembly can be a goal and still should be a goal up to and including the chipsealing as much of our highways as we can. I know that, hopefully, we have done as much as we can in the Yellowknife area and if we can concentrate on chipsealing in other areas, it has always been a criticism of my constituents.

I am very pleased to see that, of course, from the Providence junction towards Fort Simpson we will be doing up to 70 to 75 kilometres of chipseal. I do not want to see that impeded in any way. It is a huge thing. I have been telling my constituents and the department has been telling my constituents, as well, that is something that is going to work. I would like to see that work and begin as early as we can as well as some of the other reconstruction projects in the Deh Cho riding and, most particularly, the Fort Liard section from the B.C. border towards Fort Liard. I think there is something like, I forget, 12 to 16 kilometres that hasn’t been reconstructed yet. I certainly would like to see that out of the gate early as well.

Overall, it has been great things in the budget from our riding. The completion of the Nahanni Butte access road and I certainly know the constituents there as well are quite excited. They know they see its completion that they can drive to the river in a shorter passageway pretty much all season. I look forward to that. Jean Marie has always been looking for improvement of their road. I know it is classified as seasonal, but I sure would like to see that section completed; that it is an all-season road there. The department strategy, I am sure we can work towards that in the long term.

With that, I am not too sure about the efforts under the marine operations. I think the community of Nahanni Butte has always been seeking more assistance with their docking area and upgrading it. It is certainly something that I would support and look to it as we get to that line item in the budget, Mr. Chairman. With that, thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Next on my list I have Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have just a few opening comments on the Department of Transportation. I guess I just want to start off by saying this whole thing with the Deh Cho Bridge, Mr. Minister, is not something that is easy for us to be talking about, easy for myself to be talking about. I have the utmost respect for the Minister and the department. However, we are in this situation. I would expect if the Minister or any of his Cabinet colleagues were on this side of the House and the project was in the status that it’s in, I would expect them to be asking the exact same questions

I am asking. It is with all due respect that I ask these questions. There are no ulterior motives or hidden motives on my part in asking questions that I think the public wants to hear and wants to find out exactly I think why we even signed up for the bridge in the first place. A concession agreement was signed. Again, I think I will never fully understand why the previous government signed that concession agreement. I think that is where all our troubles flow from. If we can go back in time and have a sober second opinion or thought, I would see us not signing that and getting everything in order before we proceeded into a project where, by the looks of things, we really are struggling with it right now. I want to assure the Minister and his staff that it is my intention, Mr. Chairman, to work with everybody in this House to try to find solutions to the problems that we are facing and to try to get this project built and finished in the budget that the Minister is proposing now. That should be our goal.

I want to let the Minister and his officials know that is my goal to try to do that. The accountability, the responsibility, those are things that, as a Member of the Legislative Assembly and a duly elected Member, the public oftentimes calls on us to hold people to account. That is why we are here. It is never a real easy thing, Mr. Chairman, trying to hold your colleagues to account. We all become friends in here. It is a difficult task, Mr. Chairman, but I am going to keep trying to ask the questions.

Again, I’m not happy that the second half of that project didn’t go out to tender. I know I had some discussions with a number of people on that. Again, that is probably something that I might not ever understand when we go to the market place. There are companies that were looking to provide the government and the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation numbers on completion of the superstructure and they were never given a chance to provide those numbers, Mr. Chairman. That, to me, is a travesty. I think the government has never really laid out for Members what the holdup to that happening was.

Again, maybe there are reasons. Maybe the government should put those reasons on the table so Regular Members can see what those reasons are and maybe we will buy into the reasoning and the rationale behind it. The one thing I can buy is the timing and the fact that it is going to cost us money and interest. I can buy that, but judging by when ATCON was let go and the March 1st date, I

think there was enough time, Mr. Chairman, to go into the market place and get a price on that superstructure.

It was interesting, too. I don’t think I heard the Minister talk about the bridge in his opening comments or I didn’t see that in there. So that was an omission that I don’t know if it was done on purpose or if that was meant to happen or what, but

it is something, at the end of the day, we are spending -- the argument is out there -- $182 to $200 million, somewhere in there on a piece of infrastructure and I think, at the end of the day, we are going to have a bridge across that river. It is a process that has allowed us to get there that is troublesome and hopefully along the line we will learn some lessons and how not to get into partnerships with folks who really don’t have the expertise or the equity necessary to deliver on what the stated intended purpose is. That was the case here.

Members know I have had concerns about that from the word go. It has reached a point now, Mr. Chairman, I don’t know what else I can say aside from the fact that I do want to see that bridge get built. I am going to support the Minister in all of his efforts to try to get that done the best way possible.

With that, again, I wanted to thank the Minister and, again, I know I’ve thanked them in the past, but I want to thank the department for their role in the Building Canada Fund and working with the federal government and the City of Yellowknife on finally getting the bypass road into Kam Lake Industrial Park. I may have some questions for the Minister as we go through the detail, Mr. Chairman, but again, I want to thank him for that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Next on my list is Mr. Jacobson.