This is, I think, a fairly simple problem and can be resolved fairly simply, but it has... The policy is in the way. It is kind of an odd situation, because, previously, there were people in these homes, they remained in the homes until their very last days. Health had some involvement in there. Home care was providing some service directly in these facilities and that is all that we are asking for, nothing greater than what was already there, nothing greater than what was there prior to the withdrawal of the program by the Department of Health and Social Services. We are not asking to bring people back into the community that would require the department to have a nurse on full time, anything like that. There is nothing more than what was already there. The people in Fort Resolution fail to see or understand how could something that has worked without any problem whatsoever no longer work because of something that happened on paper, a policy change. The same people, the same service people will be there, they will sit in there and reactivate the home.

Essentially what is happening is there are no seniors in that home living there, so the seniors that do come in don’t even feel like it is their home. Even if they come from next door and it is a satellite unit, they don’t feel like the facility belongs to them. When the four people were actually living in there, the community felt like that facility belonged to them, the elders, the seniors, and it was a very good feeling to go in there. There was lots of activity, so to speak, and now it has kind of dwindled away to nothing more than a place for the select few elders that are eligible to go in there and have a lunch.

I want to go to the extreme end; I just want the department to see a common, sensible approach to this and say we can provide a limited amount of service, maybe a little bit of additional service, a little bit of extra capital to accommodate the residents that would live there. I am trying to get the department to see that this is a policy-driven

decision that has caused problems in the small communities or the facilities.

I know that a place shut down in Deline and I know that they are targeting Joe Greenland in Aklavik, and Fort Resolution was shut down as well. What I am saying is, let’s get something in between with support. Discuss it with the community, find a way to bring people back and let’s just let people live there and provide support to them, not necessarily 24 hour nursing care.

I have had that discussion with the Member and I have undertaken to work with the Housing Corporation. It is the Housing Corporation unit. I know the Member is saying we are not talking about 24/7 level 3-4 care, can we not work together, where the Housing Corporation provides those units available to elders and we have home care and more support there so that elders could use that facility to the extent possible, and I am willing to look at that and I believe that we could do that under the existing policy. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Lee. Thank you Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, have a similar question in regards to the Minister and just looking at the statistics that we see from the department. In the Inuvik region, based on 2006 statistics, people over the age of 70, there are 250 individuals identified in 2006. Again, I think these numbers are a little low, from the information that I have been pulling together. I have tabled information in the Legislature in the last sitting in regards to the information that was pulled together from Fort McPherson, which identified some 122 individuals over the age of 60 and 86 people over the age of 70 in Fort McPherson. I know that Fort McPherson has raised this issue with the department. There was a motion passed at the Gwich’in Assembly requesting that they consider looking at some sort of a care facility for the number of elders in Fort McPherson.

Again, I think that with the policy decisions in other jurisdictions, in regards to Alberta and in regards to the 48-hour rule now in place, because the majority of people that we do send to the southern health centres are the aged, they are frail and also, more importantly, patients that are diagnosed with cancer and whatnot are going through that process. I think it is something that we should be seriously looking at.

But again, I think just looking at the statistics and the demographics of the different regions, I think that at some point the facilities that we already have are not going to be able to accommodate the growing population, especially the seniors population. I believe your information is a little... It is from 2006, but I don’t think it really includes all those individuals that I mentioned by way of the statistics that we have.

Again, I would just like to ask the Minister with the issues raised by my colleague from Tu Nedhe, in regards to the... We do have to have some means of community care in regards to elderly care, some sort of a transitional process so that as you age, you are going to move into a different structure regardless if you are lame, you need a wheelchair, you need wheelchair access, you have different needs because of physical needs, and the facilities that we have that can’t accommodate a simple home in our communities, you are going to have to make some revisions there. So I’d like to ask the Minister, in light of the issues that are being raised in our communities, what is this government doing to provide that care facility that may be less than a long-term care facility but more of having care facilities in our communities that actually offer something close to 24-hour care. I believe there is a need. There is definitely community support for this and regional support in the region I come from. So how open are you to look at those alternative care facilities in other communities, which will be provided either through arrangements between our aboriginal governments, Department of Health and Social Services and, more importantly, the NGOs and groups that do provide these types of opportunities so we can keep our elders in our communities as long as we can? Thank you.

This capital plan is for this upcoming fiscal year. We have based it on the long-term care planning facilities needs study, but this is not a final sort of document that’s not to be changed forever. The long-term care needs have to be reviewed every five years. The populations will tell us where the needs are and it is possible that Aklavik and McPherson combined for the Gwich’in Nation, that they may be able to establish a long-term care facility that they could jointly share.

The important part is that this is a template that we can work on, and I think the department has done really good work in terms of having a long-term kind of view on where we need to go. We have worked out a prototype on long-term care facilities, the staffing needs, what we should look like, what should be provided there so that you don’t have to reinvent the wheel every single time. Future Legislatures, this is something that’s going to be on us every year. We’re going to have to look at what the long-term care bed needs are in our Territories.

For now, we are presenting the best plan we can at the moment and at the same time supporting communities in a way that can allow our elders to stay in the community, create local jobs as much as possible, and they don’t necessarily have to be done 24/7. Home care is still a good option for many communities. That has to come hand in hand with long-term care facilities. The less we have people staying in long-term care facilities, the better. That means our population is being taken care of better. Modern technology and treatment

options allow for that, but there will always be our people who need to be in a more acute care facility and we have to address that separately.

To answer the Member’s question, this is an ongoing concern. This doesn’t end here. We need to constantly review to see where the needs are, and these plans are subject to change. This is a plan for this year at this time on the information that we have. Thank you.

I think one of the biggest cost drivers we have as governments, and other governments throughout Canada or around the world for that matter, is the aging demographics that we’re starting to see in regard to the baby boomer population. It is now coming that that age and that’s going to be one of the higher population service areas in all governments and I think that we can’t rely on statistics from 2006. I think that we need to get more actual statistics on what those real numbers are. I think that we’re projecting 2026 in regard to that population.

So I think that just for statistical information we have an opportunity here coming up shortly in the next statistics in the Northwest Territories by Stats Canada, I think it’s 2011, and I think that’s something that we should very much demand is that part of the collection of data and information does look at the aging of population and the demographics in regard to the disabled, the frail and the actual type of care people need. So I think it’s something that we have to be cognizant of and realize the importance of community programs.

I think a lot of times when it comes to community programs we’re sort of the poor second cousins and all the bigger facilities seem to be built at the regional level. We need to start looking at developing these systems from the centre up, not from the community down. So I think that we do have to change that concept and actually see programs and services being delivered in those communities, and for the aging population that are being treated differently simply because of where they live, those days should be over.

I’d like to ask the Minister, you keep referring to the different types of care, regardless of if it’s in home care, but, again, a lot of times in our communities it’s treated differently because it’s based on population distribution. It’s based on half days, it’s not a full-time position. I think to be realistic about the programs and services, in order to make them work you have to have a full gamut of programs and services that work like any other larger centre such as the Inuvik region. The only community that has larger numbers than the Inuvik region, 250, is Yellowknife with 305. For 18,000 people having 305 elders over 70 compared to the Inuvik region of 250, that tells me demographically there are a lot more elders in the Inuvik region spread out over a wider area and in more communities than in

Yellowknife. I think that has to be seriously taken into consideration.

So I’d like to get some assurance from the Minister that they will seriously take a look at this and ensure that we actually have programs that really work for the elders’ care in our communities and long-term care, regardless if it’s a long-term care facility or it’s one notch down from that type of care, 24-hour care. Make it 23-hour care and that way we’ll be satisfied. So we’ll give you an hour back. How’s that for savings?

Home care worker jobs are not inferior jobs. They’re not part-time jobs. It’s going to be a more important profession. They get schooled to do home care work. They do anything from post-op care or working with persons with disabilities, looking after the elderly, working with the nurses and doctors and looking after their medication. Home care is huge and it’s going to be a more and more important area for taking care of our residents all across Canada.

Those will become, actually I think those are better economic opportunities for our people in small communities where our people in our communities can take those jobs and they’ll be good paying, long-term jobs for years. Whereas, I think the Member would be the first to agree that not all of the jobs in the health care field are being taken by our local labour, and the Joe Greenland Centre right now, the plan is in place. So I think that’s a really good plan. I think the Member worked hard to win the battle, so to speak, and he has done that. The Housing Corp has committed to renovate that facility. That needs to be done and we will be able to accommodate a larger number of seniors than who are there now, and a large portion of the money we’re already using on labour. We will be able to have strengthened home care service in Aklavik and that is really good news.

I don’t think we should be judging the work of senior care by how many 24/7 care we have. I think we’ve got to look at the quality of care we’re going to provide our seniors. Thank you.

I just have a question for the Minister, maybe she can provide the information. Can you give me the information on how many northern aboriginal people are working in the health care system when it comes to long-term care facilities in the Northwest Territories and what are those statistics, since you keep saying that we have not been able to fill all these jobs? How many long-term Northerners and aboriginal caregivers do we have in the long-term care facilities in the Northwest Territories to date? Broken down by each community or facility.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. That question will be appropriate when we get into mains or during formal proceedings. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I could get that information, because every facility I go to there are many, many aboriginal people that work in these long-term care facilities in the Territories. I also need to add home care, because that’s what I’m talking about. Home care jobs are good jobs and they are jobs that our local people can take on. Home care has many aspects to that profession. I will provide that information to the Member.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. I ask the Minister and Members to stick to capital infrastructure here. Any further comments? Questions? Page 6-9, Department of Health and Social Services, activity summary, community health programs, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment summary, $800,000.

Thank you, committee. We will return to page 6-2, Health and Social Services, department summary, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment summary. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’d like to ask the Minister about the Behchoko long-term care facility, which is going to be added onto the existing health facility. Right now there’s a long-term lease commitment for that facility in Behchoko. I’d like to know, once we make the investment of some $14 million, who is going to own that facility. Will we continue being committed to the long-term lease arrangement for the existing facility in Behchoko?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. That’s appropriately under community health programs. Did you wish to return to that section?

I’m talking about the overall investment summary, so I think it falls within this department. It’s okay. It can be answered here, because it is dealing with the total amount.

You’re asking a question about the Behchoko community facility specifically which is under community health programs.

Okay. I’ll go back.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Does committee agree to return to community health programs, page 6-9?

Thank you, committee. Mr. Krutko, you’ve asked your question. Are you prepared to answer, Ms. Lee?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The land tenure issue or whether a building will be

leased once built, those are all responsibilities under DPW. We apply for a project under function and once it’s approved, DPW takes care of that. I could undertake to get that information from the Minister.

Thank you, Minister Lee. Mr. Krutko.

Maybe just for clarification to the Minister, my understanding is the existing health facility in Behchoko is a leased facility from the local community development corporation. You have a long-term lease for that facility. What happens when you develop this new facility? Who will be responsible for that long-term lease? Do we have to pay it out or are we going to eventually take full ownership of that facility? Will there be some buy-out option to that lease arrangement? Are we locked in for the long-term of this lease commitment?