This is page numbers 6085 - 6142 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was work.

Written Question 24-16(5): Cost Of Wildlife Act Consultations
Written Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Item 9, returns to written questions. Item 10, replies to opening address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item 13, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. Item 15, notices of motion. Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions. Item 18, first reading of bills. Item 19, second reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 4-16(5), Executive Summary of the Report of the Joint Review Panel for the Mackenzie Gas Project; Tabled Document 30-16(5), 2010 Review of Members’ Compensation and Benefits; Tabled Document 38-16(5), Supplementary Health Benefits – What We Heard; Tabled Document 62-16(5), Northwest Territories Water Stewardship Strategy; Tabled Document 75-16(5), Response to the Joint Review Panel for the Mackenzie Gas Project on the Federal and Territorial Governments’ Interim Response to “Foundation for a Sustainable Northern Future”; Tabled Document 103-16(5), GNWT Contracts Over $5,000 Report, Year Ending March 31, 2010; Tabled Document 133-16(5), NWT Main Estimates 2011-2012; Tabled Document 135-16(5), Response to the Standing Committee on Social Programs Report on the Review of the Child

and Family Services Act; Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Social Assistance Act; Bill 14, An Act to Amend the Conflict of Interest Act; Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Fire Prevention Act; Bill 17, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act; Bill 18, An Act to Repeal the Settlements Act; Bill 19, Municipal Statutes Amendment Act; Bill 20, An Act to Amend the Evidence Act; Minister’s Statement 65-16(5), Devolution Agreement-in-Principle, Impact on Land Claims and Protection of Aboriginal Rights; Minister’s Statement 88-16(5), Sessional Statement, with Mr. Bromley in the chair.

By the authority given me as Speaker by Motion 31-16(5), I hereby authorize the House to sit beyond the daily hour of adjournment to consider the business before the House.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

I’d like to call Committee of the Whole to order. We have before us the consideration of tabled documents 4, 30, 38, 62, 75, 103, 133, 135; Bills 4, 14, 15, 17, 18, 19, 20; and Ministers’ statements 65 and 88. What is the wish of committee? Mr. Ramsay.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The committee would like to continue with the Department of Transportation followed by Industry, Tourism and Investment, and also Human Resources today.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. We will continue, then, with Tabled Document 133-16(5), NWT Main Estimates, 2011-2012, and continue with Environment and Natural Resources. Is committee agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

So let’s see. We were on page… Thank you, committee. Actually, I guess we did complete ENR and we’re on the Department of Transportation. That’s right. We had the general comments yesterday. It must have been late last night. At any rate, what we’ll do is take a quick break and come back to it.

---SHORT RECESS

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

I’d like to call Committee of the Whole to order. We are on the Department of Transportation. I would like to ask the Minister if he will be bringing witnesses into the House. Mr. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Yes, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. I would ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort the witnesses into the House.

I’d like to ask the Minister to please introduce his witnesses.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

With me on my right I have Mr. Russell Neudorf, the deputy minister of Transportation. On my left I have Mr. Daniel Auger, the assistant deputy minister of Transportation.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Committee, we were on general comments. I’m sure that we totally finished them. Are there any more general comments before I ask the Minister to respond? Seeing none, I’d like to ask the Minister to please respond to general comments.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’d like to thank the Members for the comments they’ve made and the concerns they’ve raised. The comments around the Deh Cho Bridge, of course, have been consistent. The project is a very massive undertaking from a government standpoint and probably one of the biggest projects in the Northwest Territories at this point. The project initially was put together with concerns to address a number of concerns that were being raised, concerns of safety, concerns of potential environment contamination, concerns over greenhouse gas, and of course to remove the bottleneck that has been challenging the traffic on the north side of the river for many years now. The P3 project that was initially undertaken to address it was faced with a number of challenges. Of course today we are in a position where we have this project as part of our projects that are being developed and delivered by the Government of the Northwest Territories. I just wanted to speak to some of the issues that were raised by the MLAs regarding the bridge first, and then some general comments on others.

First of all I wanted to state that the concern over wording is something that we should be clear about. Words that were used initially on how we reported revenues and expenses that were acceptable under the concession agreement are, now that our reporting is different because this is a government project we are using different terms. When we speak -- and Mr. Ramsay raised the concern of my use of “cost savings” on the project -- we should be clear that what I was referring to was cost savings that would be incurred from no longer having to operate the ferry or construct the ice bridge on an annual basis. Of course, under the whole process with the concession agreement, the savings would have been used to pay off the interest and principal of the bridge debt. Now these revenues of course are part of our expenses.

The use of a special purpose fund that was required under the concession agreement was of course not going to be required. We can’t confuse revenues with profits. We will be using different terminology. We are now required to include the expenses and our revenues as part of our

budgeting process and will be reporting through the mains as we present our budgets.

There has also been indication that a report undertaken by the Auditor General will be tabled in this House on March 1

st

and we look forward to

that. We have worked very closely with the Auditor General. I have to say that given that we have now undertaken to build the Deh Cho Bridge as a government project, having also to do a forensic audit or an audit of this nature has really stretched our resources and has caused a lot of work on our already very busy staff.

We still continue to work on issues that were raised by a number of our colleagues here in the House on the opening date. We still have that as a target. Of course, it’s something that we have to work very hard with the contractors to continue to work and try to deal with all the challenges that are put before us. The cost is also an issue that we’re very much mindful of as we move forward. There are a lot of things that are happening on the bridge project. Construction is moving forward. We’re happy with the progress over the last little while. We would expect that’s going to continue.

We also heard from Mr. Abernethy the concerns he brought forward and some of his desires to see the Mackenzie Valley Highway continue to move forward. We’re quite happy that we were able to sign agreements with all the different Aboriginal governments and groups along the highway route. Many of the project description reports are to a stage where they should be signed off in the next little while. There are others that have been just undertaken and they will take a little bit longer. We had given ourselves a two-year time frame, however things are progressing well. We’re quite happy with the work that has been done on that front.

To the comment about having further chipsealing done or paving, we certainly agree that we need to do more. I think I indicated last year that it’s our desire to do a lot more chipsealing. We think it’s a good way to preserve the highway service except it’s very costly at this point to deal with some of the roads that are further north. We’re looking at ways that we can improve that. At this point we have roughly 35 percent of our highways in the NWT that are chipsealed.

We also agree very much that we need to continue to improve our highway infrastructure. This is something that the tourism traffic has made comments about. A number of Members have raised it. We are working to try to accommodate that. There is concern on Highway No. 7 regarding the condition. We’ve had some serious challenges on that front with some of the spring conditions where the road has collapsed and some of the road has eroded. We have over the last three years now tried to budget accordingly to deal with the

reconstruction, but given that there’s been some challenges in erosion and sinkholes, we’ve had to divert some of our dollars. So it doesn’t allow us to move forward as fast as we’d like.

We heard also from Mr. Jacobson regarding the road concerns regarding progress of the Mackenzie Valley Highway. In his riding the road has moved fairly... The project description for that stretch of road has moved forward very quickly. Things have progressed very well and we’re hoping that things in the other parts of the Northwest Territories will go forward as well.

He’s also raised concerns over dust suppression. We agree that it’s a safety issue and that we need to deal with dust suppression. We will continue to put investment to try to alleviate those conditions. Right now, chipseal on the Dempster is something that we need to look at and there are other parts of the Territories that have made the same request.

Mr. Krutko has raised issues about bridges in this House for a number of years now and he’s made it very clear that he’s a firm believer that bridges would not only provide year-round access to the communities but would lower the cost of the pipeline. At this point, the pipeline project does not include a road. We have had discussions with the proponent and voiced our desire to see further roads be constructed parallel to this process. At this point, it’s not as part of the project and I can’t see an indication that that would happen.

We have had good progress also on the road and the PDR work that’s been done on the alignment and engineering assessments on the Mackenzie Valley Highway project. The contract there is going very well. It’s almost done and we hope to conclude that in a positive light.

The Peel River schedule is something else that was raised. We certainly are willing to sit down and discuss schedules. As long as it doesn’t warrant further investment, we feel we can change the time from in the morning to the mid-morning if that’s the desire of the community; however, we have not engaged in those discussions and would like to do so. We have some time to be able to have that discussion with the community and we’ll have our staff do that.

Mr. Hawkins was very clear in his points about getting the bridge project done and we share the same sentiment. We need to keep moving forward. This project is there for the long term and we have, of course, tried to do that. We want to see this project get completed. However, we have to do it in a way that we don’t compromise on the quality of construction or any areas of safety.

He’s also raised concern about the condition of Highway No. 3 and some of the issues that are coming forward as a result of climate change and of our ice melting and causing some driving

conditions. I drive that road every weekend. Of course, it’s a safe road. I can vouch for that. We certainly would like to see some of the issues that are causing some of the slumping on the road dealt with, but it’s certainly still a safe road if you’re driving it at the driving speeds set.

Mr. Yakeleya raised several issues that were of concern in his riding and we certainly agree that we’ve, in the last two governments, made significant investment in the Mackenzie Valley winter road that has resulted in a lot of improvements. We’ve done a number of bridges in his riding on the winter road and the communities have been very clear to us that it’s something that they’re happy with; however, they still want us to work towards continuing the season when they have the ability to travel south. The quality of the roads is getting better and has been this year. We’ve received a number of comments stating to that; however, we should point out that there is no oil and gas activity in the Sahtu this year and I think we all would agree that this has resulted in roads that are of better quality. It really points to the fact that when we do have resource development or companies in the area, that they work with us and pay their share to keep the road in good condition.

We have been very busy across the Northwest Territories working with most of the local companies in the area, with the Aboriginal companies or the Aboriginal groups, and the Sahtu has been pretty clear in getting their message to us that they have a short season as to when they can do construction work and for the rest of the season their equipment has to sit while still requiring payment. We recognize that and I think we’ve done a good job across the board. We’ve set a goal to work with communities and work with companies, northern companies, and we’re starting to see some success and we’re starting to see a lot of good work happening from these companies.

We also have been trying to deal with a number of issues that have come forward or have been issues of safety on the winter road. I think with all the grade work and the bridging that we have done, it has alleviated some of those concerns. We have also installed in the last couple of years, I should say, we planned to install quite a few signs. We did 700 last year. We plan to do another 700 on this road. This is still a fairly long winter road and we may need to do more. We also have brought to the attention the issue of the Bear River Bridge that the Member has raised on a number of occasions. It’s a project that’s ready to go, we just need to have some buy-in from the federal government. We certainly have tried to do our share to open up the winter crossings on the Bear and the bypass at Tulita by putting a little more dollars to get those done.

Mr. Yakeleya also raised a question on what would be in the federal budget for the Mackenzie Valley Highway. I had indicated earlier in this House that that’s something we’ll have to wait and see. I had some discussions with Minister Strahl. He was very clear that he couldn’t give us an answer and we would have to wait.

Mr. Chairman, there are a number of issues that were raised here, there are probably a number of further issues that will be brought up regarding our budget that’s in front of us today, and we look forward to any questions as we move along on this year’s budget.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Does committee agree that this concludes general comments?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Does committee agree that we go to detail?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

On page 11-7 are the operations expenditure summary for Transportation. We’ll defer that until after consideration of the details. Please turn to page 8 and we’ll start there with Transportation, information item, infrastructure investment summary. Agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Page 11-9, Transportation, information item, revenue summary. Agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Page 11-10. Mr. Abernethy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Actually, I did have one question and I just about missed it. This is the revenue summary. Theoretically, the bridge will be operational in November, which means that there are four months that we might expect revenue. Am I just missing it or is it on this page somewhere?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Does committee agree we go back to page 11-9?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Minister McLeod.