This is page numbers 5623 - 5662 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was health.

Topics

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Lee. If it can be shared, we would like it shared with the entire committee. Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don’t want to muddy the waters. I will take the yes. Would the Minister make the commitment to get it back to either me or this committee in some form by tomorrow to find out if that will be the case, that she should be able to provide a copy to the House or the Members or whatever form is appropriate, but could she do that by tomorrow? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Mr. Chairman, I will look to see what we can do. Thank you. It is actually a real old internal document. I need to track it down and work with other agencies, but I will do what I can. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Chairman, well, if it is only two years old or even two and a half years old, I wouldn’t define it as old. I am sure we are dealing with other facts that are much older than that. Does the Minister or anyone, for that case, know what that zero-based review would have cost to do? Furthermore, what results have been driven out of this? So the costs and results that have been formalized. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Mr. Chairman, it was done internally in the department and by the program office, I think, in FMBS was involved as well. I think we talked about this three years ago. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Well, actually that doesn’t sound familiar. Now, when you are suggesting that committee members talked about that, can you also provide... Obviously, then, there must be some subsequent briefing documents that reflect upon the observations it made as well as direction and decisions that could be made on the particular document. Can you provide those pieces of information? Just to be clear, the only thing I am looking for a yes tomorrow is can we get a copy of this information? Of course, we will sort out the timeliness of the remainder. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Mr. Chairman, yes, I will get back to the Member and Members here. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Minister Lee. Next on my list is Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The first question concerns the budget for hospital services. I see that is going up by $5 million and I am wondering where that is going. Is that Stanton dollars or is that divided amongst the authorities?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Elkin.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Elkin

Mr. Chairman, it is going up by $6.5 million: $2.4 million as related to Collective Agreement increase for that year; $1.8 million is for Stanton and Beau-Del to fund their benefits from 17 percent up to 23 percent because they are a 24/7 operation; as well, another $800,000 roughly for Beau-Del for relief costing. Stanton previously received that in the previous budget. There is also some various contract increases across all authorities, about $500,000, and $400,000 for additional staff at the medical daycare unit at Stanton. There is also $790,000 related to the Territorial Health Sustainability Initiative going to authorities as well.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, what is the relief costing for? Is that for physicians or nurses, that sort of thing?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Elkin

Mr. Chairman, it is funding for relief in call back of nurses in the hospital which is not core funded in their base salary.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I am not sure what that means exactly. If we have nurses, how can we not include that sort of thing for them? If this is for the absence of nurses, unfilled positions that are going out to agency nurses, I would like to know that. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Ms. Meade.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Meade

This relates to how we are funded. We are funded by the position, so we are not provided the call-back money when a nurse is called back, because on a 24-hour operation, you can’t run the position vacant. This isn’t about agency nurses. This is the backfill when someone is called in, and under the agreement there are ways that is done and what they are paid for. That was never funded, so we came forward and asked for that balancing and that is what you see.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, thank you for that information. I believe I heard Mr. Elkin say that we did that last year too, or perhaps that is current year. Is this now a regular part of our budget? We can expect that this is now funded?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Meade

Yes, it will now be part of the core funding.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, I note that we have a physician for inside the NWT and for outside the NWT. I am just wondering if there is any way to report on a regular basis the services we pay for from nurses who are part of our staff and those that are brought in on a local or temporary basis. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Meade

The physician resources that are outside of the Territory are not the physicians that we are bringing in as a specialty. It is anytime someone goes south and they are seen by a physician or they’re in Edmonton, and they’re all

fee-for-service. So all of those are billing codes that come as per the reciprocal billing. That’s very different than nurse locums, which I believe we were asked earlier for trying to find to the best of our ability how much we’ve been spending on the use of locums. They are different.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I realize they are different. I’ll look forward to that information coming forward from an earlier request.

I also wanted to talk about the -- sorry, I still think of it as Community Call Coverage System -- the Territorial Support Network. How is that reflected in this? My impression, from the briefings we’ve had and so on, is that there is some capacity building that’s needed. I believe we have a lot of new equipment out in our health centres now in terms of X-ray capability and ultrasound and so on; perhaps some training needs still. I know bandwidth might be part of the whole equation. I’m sure there are others. How is work on that achieving an effective and efficient operational Territorial Support Network reflected in this part of the budget?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Meade

The work of the Territorial Support Network, or the TSN, is very much in the design phase. This is a very complex, new way of doing business. We’re looking at doing this maximizing the equipment that we have, maximizing the resources. So there’s a committee that meets twice weekly. We do have some research funding, it looks like, from Health Canada, because we have to evaluate and do research as we come along. That model is still very much in its infancy development and then we hope to take that both to medical directors and the joint leadership and management committees. It will have to have a lot of the tires kicked as to implementation and how we’ll implement this slowly. I think as we have that model further developed, we’ll be able to do more costing. It’s very exciting work. I can tell you that the physicians, nurses and authority leads that are involved in this work are very enthusiastic and working very hard, but it is very preliminary at this stage.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Just, I guess, leave it as a comment that the presentations we’ve had it sounds like a lot of it should be fairly straightforward and perhaps to some degree there’s parts of it being implemented already. The technology is as simple as a phone or cell phone, where we have coverage. I guess I’m looking for efficiencies here. I like the model. I’m looking for complexity, but it seems pretty straightforward to me. I’m wondering where the bottlenecks are in implementing this. I realize it’s a new model, the tires need to be kicked and so on.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Meade

We’re certainly already maximizing, to the best of our ability, the use of the technology and the existing physician and nurse practitioner resources as far as the use of specialists that are

now available to the other authorities and the review of everything from lab tests to X-ray results. We are continually challenging ourselves on the use of telehealth and that equipment. But the Territorial Service Network will be extremely complex. There is controversy amongst physicians. If I am a locum physician, part of my interest in coming here is I can make a lot of money on call. If I’m a physician who wants to come here -- and I’m talking about outside of Yellowknife -- and I want to come here, one of the deterrents is that I don’t want to be on call every second night or have a solo practice. We’re looking at how we actually move dispatch and clinic dispatch into our medevacs. We’re being pushed by this because of the pressures from other jurisdictions as well as our own complexities. We’re already doing as much as we can. I’m talking about a real change of delivery model that will take buy-in from all the providers and while we have seen some pieces of this... Australia’s medevac, some of the STARS ambulance use of dispatch, we’re borrowing all of that, we’ve just got interest from Ottawa on what’s called The Best Brains to come and help us share some of this because this has not been done in Canada before. We’re looking at Labrador and how they’re utilizing on call with physicians and nurse practitioners. We’re not using what we have now, but this really will be something that has not been done in Canada and certainly we want to make sure before we roll it out, that we’re not having unintended consequences. Even talking about what will initially be in the mix and how that impacts simple things like the calls to ER, who’s going to answer and how we marry that up with dispatch to a medevac, it actually is extremely complex to get it right. So we’re not not doing it, but that core piece is pretty complex.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Glen Abernethy

Thank you, Ms. Meade. Mr. Bromley, your time is up. I could put you back on the list, if you wish. Otherwise I’ll go to next on my list, which is Mr. Ramsay.