Thank you, committee. Sergeant-at-Arms, if you could please escort the witnesses into the House. Thank you.

Minister Abernethy, if you could introduce your witnesses to the House, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. With me today on my right is Perry Heath, director of infrastructure planning; and Debbie DeLancey, our deputy minister.

Thank you, Minister Abernethy. I will welcome our guests back in the Chamber today. With that, our convention was to forego any opening comments and go directly to general comments. I will call general comments on Health and Social Services. General comments. Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’m pleased to have the department before us today. They have quite a huge infrastructure budget. I want to make my comments specifically to the small communities I represent in the Sahtu.

I’m looking forward to the day when the infrastructure in the small community of Colville Lake will be improved, the renovations of the health centre. I know it took me awhile, with the help of the previous Health Minister, to have running washrooms in the facility in that community in the health centre. I had several Ministers in there before. They came, they saw and they left. They didn’t quite get the essence of a good health care facility such as having running water, toilets and sinks. There was only a honey bucket in the corner. It has taken eight years to have this facility come to that stage.

I was looking at the Colville Lake Health Centre as an example as to the type of infrastructure assets we have in the small communities. I know that I spoke to the people who work in Colville Lake as I made my visit there, and they are quite concerned because the materials and supplies are stuffed everywhere. There is no real proper storage for that facility. I am looking under the infrastructure as to something that could happen in the future that this Minister would bring something forward to the House or have some plans to start looking in that area. It would mean a lot. This community does not have a full-time nurse in residence in that community. So I am hoping to see some improvements in the area of the health care in Colville Lake.

I do want to thank the Minister for some of the improvements that we have seen in Fort Good Hope in the improvement of the health centre

residence. We still do thank the department and staff for making those provisions. I was quite concerned as to the low water and the barge not getting there; however, I have been advised that that wasn’t an issue and the work was already done and the supplies were already in Fort Good Hope, so I do want to thank you for that.

I am looking forward to the Health department here cutting the ribbon in Norman Wells for the new health centre and the long-term care facility. It’s a good fight, a worthwhile fight to get that one on the books and get to the beginning of the construction. I understand the material will be hauled over the winter road to start the construction next summer with the contractors. At the same time, I am very happy to get a briefing from your colleague, the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, on the training of the personnel, workers and essential staff people for that facility. Things seem to be moving slowly. Sometimes they want them at lightning speed, but sometimes it doesn’t happen. I am quite happy that these things are moving in that community.

I do want to relate some concerns. I have talked to the Minister already and am slowly getting my research material together and I do want to talk about the Tulita health centre. It is really busting at the seams. We are getting additional staff, well-deserved staff that is in the community because of the programs that are needed and programs that the department has responded to by adding extra staff to fulfill the needs of the people. The additional staff has now moved into some of the rooms that were used for medical purposes because we do not have enough space in there and it’s getting quite crowded. Especially if the eye doctor or the dentist makes their visits to the community, it gets really busy and it gets overcrowded, along with the regular health care clinic programs that are going on. I just want the Minister to know that I am looking forward to and am going to strongly support any type of movement beyond a peer review of the Tulita health care centre and actually see some construction or something on the books that would say they are actually going to start building a new health centre. That would sure help the community and help the nurses there. God bless their souls for working under these types of conditions in our small communities.

The storage facility in Tulita, it is unbelievable that we have gone this far, this long without having proper storage. There isn’t a floor on the storage building; it’s just gravel. They just put up the building and they didn’t even build a floor for it, it’s just mud, and there is some equipment and materials that are right there. There is not even a light; it’s not even heated.

I took it upon myself, when I was in Tulita, to visit the health facilities and see the conditions the

nurses are working in, and they were quite surprised. I was really surprised when I got the tour and asked questions. I talked to the Minister already about this; the Minister is well aware. I am thankful the Minister is listening to me and I hope he can do something with that. The priority of my visit became shocking to me when I saw the residences we have our nurses in right now in Tulita. The Minister knows what I’m talking about. It’s not the ideal condition to have our nurses in in our northern communities. They work hard and they are on call like we expect, but they are also under these conditions that we want them to provide the best quality care. They are doing their best, and I’d like to see that there is some priority being given to looking at their living conditions, and that’s why I state about the new health care centre that is being planned right now. It is under peer review to be built in Tulita so that we can eliminate some of these issues for the nurse. Take the best care of them because they are under extreme working conditions and they are there for six weeks alone, depending on their contract and how things work out. I know the Minister was attentively listening to me when I spoke to him about these conditions, and hopefully he can do something very soon. Number one is on their living conditions; that’s a priority. The Minister knows what I’m talking about.

The last point I want to make on the infrastructure is in Deline. I have asked the Minister and the previous other Ministers, and finally this Minister has come back, and we want to look at palliative care beds in Deline. We have been asking for a while, and the Minister has indicated that there has been an assessment going on. The Deline people, when I saw them last week, some people were happy that we are getting somewhere. I know the federal government, the federal Minister, is high on this. She made a statement that palliative care is something that she wants to look at. The people in Deline are also very happy that we are getting a bit of movement. It’s slow but it’s moving. We want to have the palliative care and bring our people back to our communities. In the Sahtu we have big families; it’s not like in some of the other centres. The Sahtu, like any other…(inaudible)…has large families and they like to see their loved ones and be with them when they pass on to the other world.

Those are my comments, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Abernethy.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the Member’s comments. In this capital plan you will find a number of things we’re doing. There are some upgrades to some flooring in Fort Good Hope; we are finishing the construction of Fort Providence; we are beginning the construction of a health centre in Fort Resolution; we are continuing and hopefully, well, we’re intending to

complete the construction of the Hay River hospital. There are also some upgrades in some facilities like the Inuvik Hospital, the continued construction of the Norman Wells Health Centre, which includes a new long-term care facility with 18 new beds in the Northwest Territories, which is helping us address the shortages of beds throughout the Northwest Territories as a starting point. There is medical equipment to evergreen; we are doing some work around electronic medical records; and there is also the Stanton Renewal Project in here.

There are a number of other things that are priorities for the department that we are trying to address, and small health stations like the one in Colville Lake is certainly one of them. We have a number of health stations in the Northwest Territories where we are experiencing some frustrations with the buildings themselves and the ability to provide the services that we are expected and intending to provide. We are looking at ways of moving forward on some of those projects as well.

With respect to Tulita, Tulita is a facility that the Member and I have had a number of conversations about, the Tulita health centre. I am looking forward to seeing the documentation and pictures that the Member is pulling together and sending my way. We have completed a functional plan for the Tulita health centre, we know what we need, and the next step is to do the planning study, which we intend to complete in 2015. We’re hoping, assuming that all things move forward according to plan and, according to the capital planning process, we hope that we can see the Tulita health centre in the ’16-17 budget. That would be the earliest that we could actually move on that project.

With respect to palliative care, I have had a number of conversations with the Member and we are currently doing a bit of a study and exploring options. They don’t all necessitate beds in communities but maybe programs and ways to support people to come back to the communities. Beds may be an option but it may not be the only option, so we’re continuing to explore that to see how we can support residents who wish to return to the communities for some palliative care.

Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Continuing on with general comments, I have Mr. Blake.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a couple of questions for the Minister. First off, starting with Tsiigehtchic, it’s been quite some time since the health centre there was built. I would like to ask the Minister, when are the plans to have a new health centre built in Tsiigehtchic.

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Minister Abernethy.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like just a touch of clarity. Health stations

and health centres are different things. Is the Member referring to the health station?

Health centre, health station, same difference. It’s the place where everyone goes for health care.

It’s my understanding that we actually have a health station in Tsiigehtchic as opposed to a health centre, which by definition is a slightly different thing, but I understand the Member’s point. It’s where people go to meet with the health professionals. The Tsiigehtchic health station is not currently in the five-year plan. There are a number of facilities throughout the Northwest Territories, health stations throughout the Northwest Territories where, actually, the buildings are in rough shape and it’s impacting the ability to provide services at this point. I understand that the facility in Tsiigehtchic is of such a standard and condition that we can provide the care that we need to provide in that facility. But we will certainly monitor that building, and if the Member has any additional information he would like to share, I would certainly be happy to listen.

Just so the Minister is aware, the sign at the health centre says, “Tsiigehtchic Health Centre,” but that’s just for the record.

Moving on, next, as you may know, a few years back the Joe Greenland Centre closed down in Aklavik and many of the elders really want to stay in their home communities, whether it’s Aklavik, Fort McPherson or Tsiigehtchic.

As we move forward and talk decentralization, what are the plans the Minister has to build another long-term care facility in the smaller communities such as Fort McPherson or Aklavik?

As we move forward with our…(inaudible)…communities what we’re hoping to do is actually enhance services for individuals so that they could stay in their homes. I’ve travelled throughout the Northwest Territories and talked to people in almost every community, actually in every community, including Yellowknife, and what I’ve heard is people want to be able to stay in their homes, in their communities, in their regions for as long as they possibly can. Moving forward, that is part of our priority, but we also know, in time, individuals, even if they want to stay in their own homes, may eventually have to move out of their homes, and the first logical step would be moving into independent living. In cooperation with the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, who is taking the lead, the NWT Housing Corporation is building a number of independent living units throughout the Northwest Territories, and at the current time they’re either already building or about to build five different seniors independent living units through them. Those are in Whati, Liard, Fort McPherson, Fort Good Hope as

well as I believe they’re almost done the one in Aklavik.

The nice thing about these facilities that the NWT Housing Corporation is building is they are actually including a bit of a program room area where we can come to that facility with our home care workers and other professionals to provide some independent living like supports to those individuals so that we can keep them in their communities as long as possible. We do know that, unfortunately, even with that option, people may transition to the point where they are no longer able to live independently. We believe with home care supports and other supports we’ll be able to support that independent living paradigm a little longer than we have been to date. Hopefully, we’ll be able to delay that. But we do know that some people will hit a point where they can’t stay in independent living, so then we’re looking at long-term care facilities.

In the Northwest Territories our first goal is to get long-term care facilities in every region of the Northwest Territories. We do have a number of beds in the Inuvik hospital for long-term care. We are currently building the Norman Wells facility that’s going to provide us with 18 beds, long-term care beds, beds that have never existed in the Sahtu region as that next step for the people in the Sahtu as well as people for the entire Northwest Territories. We have expanded the number of beds in the Tlicho by eight by expanding the facility in Behchoko, so those are long-term care. We do have a number of long-term care beds in Simpson to cover the Deh Cho. We have long-term care beds in Fort Smith, and we have long-term care beds in Hay River. We had a little bit of a blip there that we were concerned that we might lose 10 beds that are in Hay River, but through committee we’ve been able to get the funding to make sure that we actually maintain those 10 beds, keeping our total at 25 in Hay River.

In Yellowknife, the Government of the Northwest Territories has funded Avens to construct beds. Obviously, there’s a lot of concern about the number of beds in Yellowknife and the need to do some upgrades there, and I’m committed to working with Avens to increase the number of beds available in Yellowknife. Four years ago we opened the Dementia Facility, which would be the last step, the last ability for us to provide services. It would be independent in homes, then if you have to, it would be independent living facilities with our support, then you might have to move to a regional centre for long-term care, and if you, unfortunately, proceed into a state of dementia or are suffering from dementia, your next and last step would be moving into the territorial facility here in Yellowknife, which is the Avens Dementia Facility which we opened four years ago here in Yellowknife and fully fund the operation of that facility.

There are a number of steps that an individual would go through and we’re committed to looking at the number of long-term care beds in the Northwest Territories. We recently had a study done that suggested, rightfully, that the need for beds is going to increase. We believe we’re going to start helping these people at the front end and hopefully delay their need to go to a long-term care bed where they have full supports, and hopefully, we’ll be able to delay and help people not have to go into something like the Dementia Facility earlier in life. More supports at home, the longer we’ll be able to help people to stay where they truly want to be, which is in their communities, in their homes, in their regions, and then, ultimately, Yellowknife, if need be.

Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Continuing on with general comments, I have Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Just a chance to address some of the capital issues regarding… Maybe I can begin in Fort Simpson. I think it was last year I remember the Fort Simpson health budget was actually on the capital plan. I had thought it was in the capital plan, but it certainly is a red flag now. I know that they’ve done the initial work. I think they’ve done a peer review of the project and now they’re looking at doing an RFP for the planning study. I just want to get some details on that. I know that the community is anxious. There has been a lot of discussion in the community and the leadership with the village, the band and the Metis about the potential location of a new health centre, the type of health centre they’re interested in, the building plans, what’s in there and what it’s going to accommodate. They’re really interested in seeing that and they’re waiting for engagement by the Department of Health to move this forward. It’s a pretty significant replacement of their existing health centre. The existing health centre has been known for the past five years of having a crumbling foundation and it’s a much needed replacement. I think that’s why they listed it as a red flag.

As an MLA, you always get concerned when there are other projects in other areas, and you’re wondering why theirs got done, and my health centre didn’t get done in this case. But I’ll use this opportunity to ask the Minister and the department about the importance of replacing the Fort Simpson Health Centre. It’s our own technical report that said that it’s almost in immediate need for replacement and yet there it is, we’re still operating with it.

So those are some of the initial questions that I’d like to ask about the replacement of the Fort Simpson Health Centre. It’s been red flagged publically. Maybe you could help me and tell the

public exactly what that means as we move to replace the facility in Fort Simpson.

As well, the health cabins in the smaller communities are in need of replacements. On behalf of Trout Lake, I’ve written to the Minister about the health cabin in the community of Trout Lake. It was infested with ants for the summer and bats were getting in there. It’s not really a sanitary situation, especially when you’re treating residents and even when the doctor comes in, that’s the facility he has to use to meet and assess his patients there.

I did note that in the case of Jean Marie, because these are actually leased facilities, but in the case of Jean Marie they’ve got the same scenario. They’ve got an older building owned by the band and it’s too much for them to replace. They’ve got limited capital and no room to replace old and build new. So the department did step up and say, okay, we’re going to build a new health cabin in the community of Jean Marie. So that’s something that the community of Trout Lake’s immediate needs would be in terms of constructing a new health cabin for the community of Trout Lake.

So I’ll just stop there. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Minister Abernethy.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Fort Simpson Health Centre is on the books for something that we still need to do. We’ve done the functional review; we’re still in the middle of doing the planning assessment. I’ve had a number of conversations with the Member as well as the community about this building and I’m committed to having some of our staff come into the community to meet and talk about their concerns, location being one of their concerns, but also the building itself.

We have some prototypical designs that were prepared in the 16th Assembly and shared with

Members at the time, talking about the different types of facilities, and the facility in Simpson would be a B/C type facility. So there are certain programs and space requirements and technical requirements that must be in the building. Those are things that we ensure in the building.

So although there is a prototypical design, we do appreciate the opportunity to make some tweaks, some minor modifications to accommodate some of the community desires, needs and whatnot.

We are continuing to move forward. I would like Perry just to quickly talk a little bit about some of the results of the planning study and some of the additional assessment that was happening on that building and then we can come to me for a little bit more. So, if you don’t mind, Mr. Chair, go to Perry.

Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Mr. Heath.

Thank you, Mr. Heath. We’ll continue on with Minister Abernethy.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wanted to just mention, but to be clear, it doesn’t mean that there isn’t a project in Simpson with the electrical, mechanical and other issues and some more concerns around infection control and stuff like that and the fact that standards have increased so much since that building was originally built. We still believe that Simpson has to be a priority.

At the same time, the Member has brought up concerns about the health stations that exist, the health cabins/health stations. I’m going to refer to them as health stations. We have two that the Member has addressed. One is in Trout Lake and one is in Jean Marie River. The one in Jean Marie River is a government asset while the one in Trout Lake is not a government asset. It is a band lease. Unfortunately, the one in Trout Lake is the one with the significant ant and other problems. We feel that both of these facilities need to be addressed and we are moving forward. We’ve been out to assess them. We are having conversations in the communities trying to figure out what our next logical steps would be.

As far as build or addressing them, I would say that given the current state and our ability to provide safe, competent, quality care to those facilities is more hindered than it is at Simpson. I would say that these two facilities would have to be a higher priority moving forward than Simpson, but it doesn’t mean that Simpson isn’t still on the books. It’s something that we’re working towards. But in Trout Lake we need to make sure that we can provide care in a safe environment, and we’re working with the community. Whether we move forward and try to find a new lease opportunity or whether it’s something we have to bring in there still gets to be determined, and we are doing that work now. I will certainly keep the Member and the community informed as we move forward and try to figure out what the best course of action will be.

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much. I think they have indicated that the foundation was reassessed. That’s contrary to the document that I have. So, maybe the Minister can commit to sharing with me the engineering reassessment, because it’s also the HVAC, or the heating ventilation, air conditioning system, too, that had some serious concerns. Still, meeting with the community is certainly a priority and I urge the department to continue to do that, meet with the Village of Fort Simpson, the mayor and the chief, as well, and the Metis Council.

Just for clarity for the request for proposal for the planning study, I think the Public Works Minister says it will be issued here shortly. So, when would the actual planning study get underway then? Thank you.