Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The

Workers’

Safety

and

Compensation

Commission has regulations regarding employees who have to work alone, and as we’ve mentioned, the departmental occupational health and safety specialist identified the current set-up of the rental office as a health and safety risk for the employee that is staffed there.

It becomes incumbent upon us to address that health and safety risk, and as my deputy minister has stated, there was an incident there and we need to ensure that we can protect the employee that we have there. There have been incidents in other offices in Yellowknife and other communities, and we need to ensure that we’re doing everything we can to make sure that our employee is protected.

I’m just trying to get a sense of how

far we’re going to go. I mean, are we talking about a counter that people will have between the two of them? Are we talking about putting them behind a glass wall, that they have to speak through the little vent and slide paper u

nder the window? I’m just

curious how far or how big city we’re becoming because one person may have been a little upset, and I’ve yet to find out how upset.

People get passionate. Some would maybe swear, and some define that as aggressive, absolutely. But in the bigger scheme of things, people sometimes get emotional, and you have to sort of look at the

whole situation at large. That’s what I’m trying to understand.

What does “incident” mean and how far is this going to go? Are we going to put a counter in place or are we going to put them in a glass bubble where they’re locked in, security coded and, like I said, speak through the little metal vent, slide paper under the window? I mean, how far is this going to go? I’d like to know.

I think we should be more focused on the health and safety risks as opposed to what constitute

s an incident. We can’t be too safe

when it comes to protecting the employees that we have.

To get to the Member’s question, we are looking at redesigning the space to share a reception area and also a second egress at the back of the office space to allow a second way for the employee to get out of that office should the need arise.

Well, again, not knowing what “incident” means here, we’re just taking a stab, and I would caution the Minister on thinking I don’t think personal safety or employees don’t matter. I think that that’s an atrocious description of what I was trying to say. I’m trying to understand, did someone get upset and swear? Did someone take a swing? Did someone throw something at it? Did they do the George Bush throw a shoe at them? What are we talking about on that and how far are we going to go without knowing this?

I mean, all I’m hearing is “incident.” Well, incident means what? We have to bring how much money to change the whole office around? I mean, we have to be fair and honest here. I mean, nobody wants anyone to work in an unsafe environment. No one’s saying that. But, I mean, how far are we going to take this? I mean, are we turning a papercut into a triage incident, you know, and we have to send 20 doctors down? I mean, what is the incident that we’re speaking of? Give us a sense of how serious this is. If there’s only been one, again, nobody wants anyone hurt. No one’s suggesting that at all, and I’m very disappointed to even think that would be alluded to, but the thing is, what are we talking about?

I thought it was quite clear what we’re talking about and that’s the safety and well-being of the staff that we have in the rentals office. This type of security and finish, the equipment will be similar to other departmental office space with similar clientele such as maintenance enforcement and also the probation offices. Again, it’s very important that

we understand what we’re up against,

and that is a clientele who can be unpredictable. They are well known to other social agencies in Yellowknife. We’ve had experiences with these folks at other offices, including legal aid, so we can’t be too safe and we have to ensure that we are protecting our employees.

We still haven’t had the answer of

what an incident means or in the context of… Thanks, Mr. Bouchard.

The other thing is that now the Minister is stereotyping the clientele by saying the

y’re well

known by other social agencies. I don’t know what he means, and in all honesty, I mean, we’re just sort of guessing at good faith.

Incident, again I’m saying, was it someone upset? They crumpled up a piece of paper and were mad because they didn

’t get the answer they wanted? I

mean, what are we talking about? It’s just continue to say as minimum as possible, promise to get back to us, even though we know no one will get back to us in a timely way that it will affect this budget and just drag the clock out so we lose our 10 minutes. Really, all we’re hearing here is just the same thing.

Can the Minister explain what type of incident happened so we can understand the necessity for that? I mean, no one wants a serious casualty of any sort or any cas

ualty, and that’s the issue, but I’d like

to know what we’re talking about. He can say all he wants, well, we know what we’re talking about. I want to know what the incident means. Was it someone crumpled up a paper? Swore? Are we actually talking a physical altercation? Like, what are we talking about?

I thought the deputy and myself have made it quite clear that there have been incidents. It shouldn’t matter to what degree those incidents happened. Some of them have been serious in nature, and when you are dealing with a rental office and people are facing the prospect of perhaps losing the place they live, they are under a tremendous amount of pressure, and we can’t be too safe when it comes to protecting the employees we have, because when people are faced with that type of pressure, sometimes people don’t deal with that pressure very well and they lash out at these front- line workers that we have, and we need to ensure that they’re safe.

Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Committee, we’re on page 57, services to public, infrastructure investments, $365,000. Does committee agree?

Committee, if I can get you to turn back to page 51, capital estimates, Justice, total infrastructure investments, $9.078 million. Does committee agree?

Thank you, committee. I’d like to thank our guests here today, Ms. Hannah

and Ms. Haener. Thank you for joining us today, and of course, Minister Ramsay. If I can get the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort our witnesses out of the Chamber.

Commi

ttee, we’re just going to take a five-minute

recess.

---SHORT RECESS

I would like to call committee back to order. I will continue with our estimates on capital with next on the list, which is Lands. I will turn to the Minister responsible to see if he has witnesses to bring in. Mr. McLeod.

Yes, I do, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Does committee agree?

Thank you, committee. Sergeant-at-Arms, if you would escort the witnesses in, please.

Minister McLeod, would you like to introduce your witnesses to the House?

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. With me I have to my right, Mr. Mark Warren, deputy minister of Lands; and to my left, Brenda Hilderman. She is the director of corporate services.

Ms. Hilderman and Mr. Warren, welcome back to the House. Committee, we are on Lands, general comments. Is committee prepared to go into detail?

Thank you, committee. Committee, we are on pages 59 to 61. Operations, infrastructure investments, $1.350 million. Does committee agree?