This is page numbers 6621 – 6658 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was services.

Topics

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

I’d like to call

Committee of the Whole to order. What is the wish of the committee, Mr. Bisaro?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We wish to deal

with

Tabled

Document 324-17(5),

Supplementary

Estimates

(Operations

Expenditures), No. 2, 2015-2016; and Tabled Document 325-17(5), Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 3, 2015-2016; and, Mr. Chair, we’d like to start with the capital estimates, which we did not conclude yesterday. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Alright, committee. We’ll commence after a short break.

---SHORT RECESS

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Order, committee. I’d

like to call Committee of the Whole back to order. With that, we’ll continue on capital estimates as agreed upon earlier. With that, I’ll turn it over to the Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services to see if he has any witnesses that he’d like to bring into the House.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Yes.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you,

committee. Sergeant-at-Arms, if you can please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.

Thank you. Minister Abernethy, for the record, if you could please introduce your guests.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you. Here with me today are Debbie DeLancey, the deputy minister, on my right; and Derek Elkin, the assistant deputy minister, on my left.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Ms. DeLancey, Mr. Elkin, welcome back to the House. Committee, as I indicated, we’re on page 37 with the Department of Health and Social Services. With that, we’ll start with general comments. Is committee prepared to go to detail?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you.

Committee, we’ll defer page 37, capital estimates. I turn your attention to pages 38 and 39, capital estimates, administrative and support services, infrastructure investments, $44.134 million. Does committee agree? Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. A couple of questions here. First of all, I wonder if I can get an update on the Child and Family Information System. I’m sure a mass of information was provided, but for clarity this is something we’ve been trying to get done since midway through the 16th Assembly. I know we’ve tried a couple of times

and failed during this Assembly, even though the money was budgeted. I would be concerned if this was a modification of the current system, which we know is not worth the paper it’s printed on. So I’m just looking for an update on what exactly is involved here with this. I think it’s our third attempt during this Assembly. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Abernethy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We’re not looking at rebuilding the existing system in any way, shape or form. We’re actually moving forward with an all new system. I know that we have begun the internal work, have started on this particular project, the project planning. Working groups

have

been

assembled,

including

professionals that will be utilizing the system. Communications and change management work has begun. I can also say that we have actually chosen a preferred vendor and we’re currently in the process of negotiating the contract. I believe the contract

negotiations

will

be

concluded

in

December, at which point we will be moving forward with the work on the new system.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

October 1st, 2015

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you for that update to the Minister. I appreciate that and I think it sounds like we’re getting after it here. So, this is spread over two fiscal years. This will be finishing up the system, if that’s what we’re approving here today. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

There’s money in the

current fiscal year that we’re in today and this is money for ’16-17 that will take us through, hopefully, to conclusion of that project.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Just moving on, and I know, as a P3 projec

t, the Stanton Territorial Hospital, I’m not

sure if it’s a renewal project, but a new project, is a P3 and, therefore, probably involves Finance as well as Public Works and Services. So far we don’t have a good record for finishing our large infrastructure projects on budget. Most recently, of course, is the Inuvik-Tuk Highway, which is half built and already 15 percent above the promised cost. I guess one of the things that we heard about a lot and that we’ve seen with the Mackenzie Valley Fibre Optic Lin

e, for example, is what’s termed in

the analysis literature on P3 projects as “cost creep,” where the government keeps shifting what the cost is and says they’re meeting those costs.

So, what checks and balances are in place to ensure that the cost of this facility does not go over,

like has been our experience to date with large infrastructure projects? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

I hear the Member’s

concerns around P3 projects and we have, before moving forward with this particular project, reviewed other P3s that were done for the construction of hospital facilities across the country and there have been some that have worked out not particularly well, but we also know that there have been some that have worked out. We’ve also reviewed the Auditor Ge

neral’s reports and other reports that

were conducted on some of those P3 projects and we’ve moved forward, recognizing the number of the recommendations that were put forward in those

particular

projects.

One

of

the

recommendations, I believe it was in one of the facilities in Ontario, is that you need to have a hard cap on the construction component of the P3 project, and we have a hard cap of around $300 million, maybe slightly over $300 million of the P3 project to replace Stanton facilities. We also have checks and balances and teams put together to monitor the progress to make sure that we’re getting what we want when we expect to get it, and some external reviews that will help us obviously ensure that we are meeting our commitment and the contractor’s commitment moving forward to make sure that we get this facility that’s going to provide high quality services to all the residents of the Northwest Territories over the next 30 years.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks to the Minister. Perhaps just a quick follow-up on the monitoring teams. I think it’s clear that we have a record of non- inclusiveness from the government for Regular MLAs with timely information.

What will be the responsibility to get the reports of the monitoring teams in a timely manner to all Members of the Legislative Assembly? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

I know the Minister of Finance has indicated that they will be providing updates to committees moving forward. That will be in the life of the 18th Assembly. I’m sure that the

standing committees responsible and whoever happens to be on Cabinet will be able to set up a protocol to make sure information is being shared in a timely and appropriate way.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I appreciate the 18th Assembly

will have that role as do we. We are, right now, talking about the 17th Assembly as we set this up

and discuss this budget. I would like to know there will be a commitment to get timely information from these monitoring teams to all Members of the Legislative Assembly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

I believe the Minister of Finance has already made that commitment and we will live up to it accordingly.