This is page numbers 725-762 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was program.

Topics

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chair. The figure I gave was the figure, and referred to by Mr. O'Reilly was the cost of the library. Costs are made up not only of the librarian's salary, but publications, particularly ongoing subscription publications are incredibly expensive. Much of this information could be obtained online. So the cost savings will be twofold. The reduction in the position, but also, the cost, the very, very high cost of keeping up subscriptions.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

I understood, though, that there was an internal restatement within the department where a number of costs that were associated with a library have now been apportioned to the court registries. Can the Minister or his staff confirm that? I think the figure was about $220,000. Can the Minister or his staff confirm that, please?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, I'm certainly not aware of that. I do know that the costs of the library have been exceeding the budget costs by approximately that same amount, but I'm not aware of anything to do with the registries tying into the library.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

I guess what I'm trying to figure out here is the costs that have been quoted by the Minister in the House yesterday, $467,000. We've got a part of a staff person or staff PY. I understood that that would save us about $50,000, that the $417,000, that's really just publications, or does it actually include the costs that we would pay to rent that space within the building?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, the $50,000 was going to be the money we would save immediately or this year, but perhaps Ms. Schofield can assist. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Ms. Schofield.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Schofield

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The departmental budget for the library is $223,000 annually. The amount that was given on the $467,000 is the actual expenditures for the library program, for 2015-16, so it's actually overspending its appropriation by $244,000.

When the Minister is indicating that the government would save, it would save the entire amount of what is actually being spent. The $50,000 that's in the budget this year is just what would be saved this year. In June, there's publications that are currently being purchased up until now. There is costs related to the GNWT staff retention policy, so the $50,000 is what would be saved in the appropriation for 2016-17. The entire savings on the budget side would be $223,000. However, the total savings would be $467,000, as we would no longer be overexpending the appropriation. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Schofield. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks Mr. Chair. That's helpful information to have. Anything above $50,000 that we're going to save with the staff person is being spent on publications? I'm trying to find out, I want to get a specific breakdown of this $467,000, and I don't seem to be getting it from the department?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chair. Perhaps Ms. Schofield can assist.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Schofield

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Of the appropriation for the library, the $223,000, it's roughly, I don't have the exact amount with me, about $100,000 for the salary and benefits of the librarian.

With the savings for 2016-17 in the total library would only be $50,000 because there are expenditures that are happening in this fiscal year, and the total savings would not be achieved until the 2017-18 fiscal year. The remaining amount of that $223,000 is budgeted for materials and supplies which goes to the purchase of subscriptions, the purchase of additional volumes of books that go into the library, those type of items. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

That's helpful in understanding this. Is any portion of the $467,000 that the Minister has stated in this House, is any of that related to cost of this space rental?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Your time has expired, but I will allow Ms. Schofield to answer.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Schofield

No. No portion of that is related to the lease for the space.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Mr. Thompson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. I'll just build on Mr. O'Reilly's questions here so I can better understand what's being offered here. So if I understand correctly, we have $100,000 for salary, then we have $367,000 which includes materials and supplies and volumes of books. Is this correct?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chair. That is correct. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Okay, I'm just a little bit confused on why we would have this over expenditure of $244,000 every year. Is this related to just the subscriptions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chair, it is mostly related to the subscriptions, which are incredibly expensive, and probably have gone up in price over the years. In fact, I'm sure they've gone up in price over the years.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

I thank the Minister for that answer. Just so I understand properly--somebody said something. Now I have to catch it. Subscriptions are involved. Is it electronic or hard copy?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

My understanding, Mr. Chair, is the vast majority of the cost is hard copies. What you find with the subscriptions is that loose-leaf service is most of them, so they have to be put in the books, but they come every quarter depending on changes in the law, and they are, I know from personal experience, incredibly expensive.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

If we have these subscriptions, what--are you not going to be using them anymore or is it not going to be out there? How is this going to be handled if we do not get these hard copies?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Chair, a lot of this information can be obtained online, or alternatively, often these subscriptions relate to fairly obscure areas of law, and perhaps the practitioners in those areas can pay for their own books as lawyers who are outside of Yellowknife must.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Do you have to pay for these online subscriptions?