Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Sebert.

Well, again, the amount of the lease is based on the appraised amount. So if the appraisal comes in at $40,000 the amount expected to be paid yearly would therefore, in a normal case, be $4,000, although as I mentioned earlier there could be exemptions for a senior citizen. So it is based on the appraised value, a percentage of the appraised or assessed value of the property. It's not so different than leases anywhere and it seems to me that a yearly lease or rental of 10 per cent of the appraised or assessed value is not an unusual or extraordinary amount. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Sebert, Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank the Minister for his answer. I guess this lease is an everlasting gift to the Government of the Northwest Territories. It just keeps on giving and giving and giving. So people who have to pay $4,000 a year -- I know in my community as a tax-based person, I pay $1,400 for a home. So, man oh man, you need to work with the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs to come up with a more realistic approach to it. Or is this a new industry for this Government of the Northwest Territories? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Sebert.

Mr. Chair, this is not a new industry for the government. Under the prior system I don't think we were even meeting our costs. I don't think a yearly 10 per cent of the appraised value of a property is extraordinary or out of line with normal commercial practice. Perhaps Mr. Hagen would like to add something to this. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Sebert, Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess we should be encouraging the people who live in Fort Resolution and the smaller communities to actually move to Yellowknife because my colleague beside me here only pays $2,000 for rent. I don't know what Hay River is, but I know in Fort Simpson I should be encouraging them to come to Fort Simpson because they only have to pay $1,400.

So again, will the Minister work with the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs to address this huge outrageous bill that these community get? You're talking, if it's 10 per cent, man, I would be paying $10,000 on my home or $20,000, depending on the appraisal. So will the Minister work with the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs to come up with a better system that works for the residents of the Northwest Territories who have to deal with leases? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Sebert.

Mr. Chair, I'm pleased to hear that one of the Members from Yellowknife is only paying $2,000; however, I imagine during the term of his ownership of the property he also had to make mortgage payments and so on. One of the things with a lease is that you generally pay a certain amount based on market, if there is a market, or, as we've done, on appraisal, and I don't think that a yearly rental or lease of 10 per cent of the appraised value is out of line. I think that's roughly what I'm paying for the apartment I live in when I'm in Yellowknife. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Sebert, Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We haven't even talked about the issue that I want to talk about. I really would hope the Minister would actually look and understand what the real world is for these small communities, and this is a problem is that, yes, you say it's $40,000, but some of these people had to pay mortgages, so they continue to pay the mortgage and they do these things.

So will the Minister work with the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs to come up with a system that works better for the residents of the Northwest Territories, in particular the smaller communities? We're not talking Fort Smith, Yellowknife, Hay River, Fort Simpson, Inuvik. I'm talking about the smaller communities. Will he work with the Minister on this to address this issue? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Sebert, to the question.

Mr. Chair, the system proposed by the Member, I suggest, would be a nightmare. We'd have a checkerboard system. It is clear, and everybody understands, that incomes are lower in some of our small communities. That is definitely the case, but that's an issue that can be addressed in other manners. These numbers were arrived at after a good deal of consideration, looking at inflation rates and the need to cover our costs. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Sebert, Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank the Minister for his non-answer again. I love that. I mean, I'm sorry to say we'll have to agree to disagree on this. So it kind of falls in to the next step, is the cuts to these jobs that are community-based. So will the Minister explain how these cuts were identified?

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister Sebert.

As we've mentioned previously, the Lands department was only created a couple of years ago, and there was an amalgamation of employees who worked for the territorial government and those that formerly worked for the federal government, and naturally there were overlaps when the systems to incorporate cultures, if I can put it that way, were combined. So when we were looking at the situation, we looked at areas where we thought there could be rational evidence-based reductions, and for that reason we looked at the positions and determined that these positions were ones that could be reduced. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Sebert, Mr. Thompson.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So we're talking evidence-based, so there was an input and output, which means that if we're looking at if you remove this job out of the community and then put him on income support, that was part of this evidence-based process, I am assuming, so it was an input and output and we are looking to make decisions. That to me is evidence-based. The Minister talks about these redundancy positions. Well, we started out with eight the previous year, went to seven last year, now we are down to six. So are you saying that regional operations are redundant? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Twenty seconds; would the Minister like to respond?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I mean, whenever there are positions that are affected often there is a process that the government goes through, and often these people find other positions in the government. That is often the case as we all know from the round of reductions that took place last year. Most people found other positions, some retired. Some who were affected unfortunately could not find other positions, that is true, but the government has to live within its means and therefore we have to look at a rationalization. We always hear that the government should be acting more efficiently. Well, unfortunately sometimes that does mean the reduction of positions. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Next I have Mr. Beaulieu, I believe.

No.