This is page numbers 2249 - 2288 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was airport.

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Question 715-18(2): Land Lease Assessments
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Lands.

Question 715-18(2): Land Lease Assessments
Oral Questions

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Member’s office has correctly stated, the leases are based on 10 per cent of the assessed value, and that is standard across the Northwest Territories, that 10 per cent of assessed value exists from Fort Smith, all the way up the valley to the ocean. Now, that is standard across the Northwest Territories, and that 10 per cent is roughly a standard that would be true, all across Canada. What happens is that the MACA assesses the land based on several factors: location of force is always important; whether the land is developed or surveyed; or whether there is a road nearby. All of those factors go into determining what the assessment is, and the lease amount is based on 10 per cent of that. Of course, as mentioned when I was answering the other question, there is a reduced rate for agricultural, seniors, or for non-profit groups, which is half of the regular rate. Thank you.

Question 715-18(2): Land Lease Assessments
Oral Questions

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

I thank the Minster for his answer. Why isn’t the department using the mill rate, like tax-based communities use, instead of using the flat rate of 10 per cent for land leases?

Question 715-18(2): Land Lease Assessments
Oral Questions

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

The Land Pricing Policy was developed in 1997, and as the Member mentioned, it is being reviewed. Now, the mill rate is a municipal rate which each municipality sets to determine the amount of money that is required to be raised from local taxpayers. That is different in each community, so the mill rate has to do with taxation. The lease rate, that I have referred to, has to do with leasing of the land itself.

Question 715-18(2): Land Lease Assessments
Oral Questions

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

I thank the Minister for his answer. Will the Minister direct his department to look at how tax-based communities come up with their mill rate and then develop their own mill rate to replace the 10 per cent approach presently used by this government?

Question 715-18(2): Land Lease Assessments
Oral Questions

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

As mentioned in my answer to the previous question, of course the mill rate is the way in which municipalities establish their needs to raise tax revenue in each community, and that tends to be different in each community, depending on their needs. So we are, of course, reviewing the whole policy in this area, but I don't think we would be referring to a rate as a "mill rate," which is really specific to municipalities.

Question 715-18(2): Land Lease Assessments
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Nahendeh.

Question 715-18(2): Land Lease Assessments
Oral Questions

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I understand the mill rate belongs to municipalities, and I am talking about a similar approach. Since the Minister isn't going to look at that, will the Minister have his department look at only charging for 10 years and have the total cost spread over a 30-year time period instead of the lessees paying for, over and over again, as every 10 years, they are paying for their land? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 715-18(2): Land Lease Assessments
Oral Questions

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As mentioned earlier, our lease rate is based on 10 per cent of the assessed value. We are looking at the whole regime, if I can put it that way, of taxation, but I am not prepared to commit to the specific plan suggested by the Member opposite.

Question 715-18(2): Land Lease Assessments
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Question 716-18(2): Land Lease Assessments
Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I apologize to the Minister of Lands for not giving him a heads-up, but it's just a bit of a continuation of the honourable Member from Nahendeh. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to ask the Minister if this 10 per cent policy is a policy that is left over from the equity lease, where leases were paid out in full in 10 years? Thank you.

Question 716-18(2): Land Lease Assessments
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Lands.

Question 716-18(2): Land Lease Assessments
Oral Questions

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I am not absolutely sure of whether there was a connection between the assessment, the 10 per cent assessment, that I have spoken of earlier and the equity lease situation, which is quite a different situation. I do know that the land pricing policy was established in 1997, so it hasn't been looked at in some time by Cabinet. Land leasing and equity leases are somewhat different. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 716-18(2): Land Lease Assessments
Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

The honourable Member for Nahendeh talked about mill rates. In the municipalities where they charge mill rates, you get a service, curbs, water and sewer, piped systems, usually. What type of service does the GNWT charge to -- I can't think of the word that would constitute the 10 per cent being charged for the leases.

Question 716-18(2): Land Lease Assessments
Oral Questions

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

One of the advantages to the tenant is certainty of tenure. By granting a lease, of course, a person is given rights, the surface rights to the property, and that is certainly something that is very valuable. The revenue that is collected, however the government collects it, whether it's through regular taxation or through leases, of course would go into general revenue to provide all the services we provide to our citizens.

Question 716-18(2): Land Lease Assessments
Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

The Minister speaks of the review on the land leasing policy hasn't occurred, I do believe he said, since 1999. There are some properties where the units have been on there since the 1980s, since the 1970s, and so on. Mainly since the 1970s would probably be the older units in our smaller communities. I would like to ask the Minister if he is prepared to look at what the original deal was, because many of the people who are leasing have indicated that that was their land to start with and they built their home on their own land and now they are paying the government for 10 per cent of the value of that equity that they have accumulated.

Question 716-18(2): Land Lease Assessments
Oral Questions

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

The Member opposite has raised a complex issue. I can advise that the Department of Lands, with assistance from Justice, is looking into the whole area of equity leases and our responsibilities under these leases.

Question 716-18(2): Land Lease Assessments
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Sahtu.

Question 717-18(2): Land Lease Assessments And Consultations
Oral Questions

Daniel McNeely

Daniel McNeely Sahtu

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I apologize for not giving heads-up notice to the Minister of Lands, but it's a continuation on the same similar subject. I am really not too sure when the acts were developed, but one was mirrored from devolution. Is the Department of Lands having some preliminary discussions with the stakeholders out there who have claims or leases in preparation for the amendments to the act? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 717-18(2): Land Lease Assessments And Consultations
Oral Questions

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Lands.

Question 717-18(2): Land Lease Assessments And Consultations
Oral Questions

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, of course, the department is always interested in engaging stakeholders as we move forward. In particular, as I referenced earlier, there is this complex area of equity leases that we are looking at from both an Honour-of-the-Crown position, if I can put it that way, and also looking at our legal obligations that may exist under these leases. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 717-18(2): Land Lease Assessments And Consultations
Oral Questions

Daniel McNeely

Daniel McNeely Sahtu

I welcome the answer. My second question here is: is there going to be a draft schedule of consultation provided to Members on this side in preparation for those changes?

Question 717-18(2): Land Lease Assessments And Consultations
Oral Questions

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

As I have mentioned earlier, we are looking at the minimum lease changes. Certainly, we have been consulting with Aboriginal and other stakeholders, and I imagine I could provide a list of consultations that have taken place and those that are planned.

Question 717-18(2): Land Lease Assessments And Consultations
Oral Questions

Daniel McNeely

Daniel McNeely Sahtu

When can we expect a draft schedule so we can respectively assist in the consultation with the stakeholders in our respective areas?

Question 717-18(2): Land Lease Assessments And Consultations
Oral Questions

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

I would have to consult with the department to determine how soon we could provide that to Members opposite.